Blood stop powders

EmsRescueGuy

EmsRescueGuy

Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
1,067
Without fail these days any talk about field firstaid stumbles on the topic of Quick Clot or other blood stop powders. As of right now these powders are not an accepted part of in hospital or field protocals for me, so I really have limited experience with them. I have found a good article on them that I thought might be usefull for the folks on this sight contemplating putting them in kits.

http://www.tacticalmedicine.com/files/policeaugust04.pdf
 
Its not protocol for me either yet. The new products encased in gauze or whatever I hear are easier to remove from a wound bed than loose granuals.

Thinking about adding some for remote industrial medical jobs, protocol or not.

Skam
 
Blood Stopper powders were all the rage even just last year. But there is a rapid shift back to plain ol pressure dressings instead. I once witnessed an ER doc at VGH going frigging ballistic at the first responder that used BloodClot on the patient they brought in off the jobsite.:D went up one side of the first aid guy and down the other...

MESSY stuff to clean up.
 
Bushman5 said:
Blood Stopper powders were all the rage even just last year. But there is a rapid shift back to plain ol pressure dressings instead. I once witnessed an ER doc at VGH going frigging ballistic at the first responder that used BloodClot on the patient they brought in off the jobsite.:D went up one side of the first aid guy and down the other...

MESSY stuff to clean up.
Click to expand...

It’s not in our protocols either and doesn't appear to be getting any closer.

Debridement is the biggest problem that I was told about when I inquired if we would start using them. The stuff is apparently a royal pain in the ass to clean out of wounds plus IIRC the earlier versions generated a fair amount of heat and there were worries about what extra damage that might be causing. I know some of the latest versions don't generate as much heat from what I have read but they also don't clot as well.

I agree that the bandage stuff is probably much better than the loose granular stuff but I have no experience with them and actually don't know anybody that has used them.

Does anyone have experience with the bandage?

In my experience and I'm pretty sure most here, 99% of bleeding “emergencies” can be handled with simple diffuse pressure and bandage. In fact, most bleeding emergencies aren’t actually even really emergencies. I've handled some pretty serious bleeding and never actually got to the stage that a tourniquet was needed as I'm sure most EMS people here have. My biggest problem with this stuff isn’t that professionals might start using them in actual bleeding emergencies if really needed but that every Tom, Dick and Harry is going to start using it as a first defense against simple bleeding that can probably be handled with a little knowledge, some simple pressure and a bandage. Its those outcomes that it might have an adverse impact on from infections and scaring. No studies that I know of, but I wonder about it.

As a side note, I’ve noticed that we already have 2 packs of it (QR) in our first aid cabinet at work so the PR machine for the stuff is churning.

KR
 
I think a lot of the issues (excessive heat, difficulty removing, etc) w/ the early renditions have been addressed w/ Celox- possibly others as well

the military (sadly) is using this stuff on a daily basis and saving lives, how much applicability it has in the civilian world might be debatable- we however now carry it (along w/ a one handed tourniquet) for LE purposes.

I also have put some in my personal first aid kit that I carry backpakcing/hunting/fishing.

not a substitute for pressure/ bandages, but another tool in the tool kit
 
I think that a lot of the bad news about hemostatic agents has been due to untrained or improper use of them. They are very effective and worthwhile when used in real life-or-death situations where bleed-out is imminent (arterial wounding from accidents and gunshots, etc.). Potential contamination or 'burning' of outlying tissue is taken into account vs. loss of life. It is when these agents have been mis-used in situations where traditional first-aid treatments would have sufficed is where most complaints have come from.

Newer packaging into sponges (vs. original loose granules) helps to make the hemostatic agents easier to use and remove, but proper training of first-responders is what is really needed.

I will continue to keep Quikclot in my "Ventilated Operators Kit", but traditional bandages and pressure bandages are also in the kit.

*****

Just did a search for Quikclot and noticed that they are making and selling "sportsman's packs" of the stuff. I guess that their desire to make profits is more important than the need to properly train users.

While I still believe that there is a valid need for hemostatic agents, I think that proper training has been abandoned in the name of money.
 
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I asked my buddy who's a combat medic about it and he says he won't go near the stuff. He recomends Israeli pressure dressings to keep in your kit.
 
The stuff is darn handy though....

I got cut pretty good by a propeller on one of my R/C airplanes once and it would have ruined my day, but a buddy found a sample pack of QR in the glovebox of a used truck he just bought. He asked me if I wanted to try it, so I did. The stuff is like magic! What really impressed me was that it stayed in place for several days, through soapy showers, etc.

I could see where if you were going to need further medical help, it would be a huge PITA for the doc to get the stuff out ofa wound.

I just ordered some to keep in my bow hunting pack.


Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
CWL said:
I think that a lot of the bad news about hemostatic agents has been due to untrained or improper use of them. They are very effective and worthwhile when used in real life-or-death situations where bleed-out is imminent (arterial wounding from accidents and gunshots, etc.).
*****.
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The reports I am getting from Combed Medical friends is that in these severe cases it is actualy least effective, but again this is only 2nd or 3rd hand reports.

We use special foam sponges for inserting into severe bleeds in the ER but I dont know how field effective these would be, only the doctors use these in hospital.

I have used an ace wrap and gauze to stop arterial bleeds.
 
Shotgun said:
I asked my buddy who's a combat medic about it and he says he won't go near the stuff. He recomends Israeli pressure dressings to keep in your kit.
Click to expand...

Make your own instead. More modular. Tensor bandage, Non adhesive bandage, and an absorbant bandage. Cheaper, lighter, useful in more circumstances and easier to replace as well.

Israeli dressings work if you cant properly pay attention to a patient, which is their intended purpose.
 
I have used QR on a hemophiliac with a severe laseration to her foot. It wasnt an immediately life threatening injury but it did work very well at controlling the bleeding. I was able to talk with the women the next day and she told me that she did not feel any burning sensation. The doctor simply irrigated the wound with saline and the power washed away.

If you use any of the quick clotting products you should attach the wrapper close to the wound so the attending medical staff know what product was used on the casulty. It makes the job much easier for the staff.
 
I have only used it on livestock but it worked well for that. We put on on the cows after cutting the horns off.
 
Yea im pretty sure this stuff isnt in the protocol for any state side EMS crew. It sure as hell isnt with mine. In addition to being a royal pain to clean out in the ER and causing outlying burns, it has a nasty habit of entering the blood stream and causing an embolism. Because its usually used on major veins, the clot tends to travel until it reaches smaller veins in all the important bits, lungs, brain, etc. It works well enough used sparsely in averagely fit or better patients (like you'd find in the military), but if you start using it on elderly patients, out of shape patients, cases with any kind of circulation problem, you risk making it worse. I carry one for myself in the wilderness but i say stick with the pressure bandages, its really a last resort.
 
Not used In canada either as far as I can tell you. Canadian Forces used to use it, but stopped last year sometime for the above reasons.

Cow horns though. Interesting.
 
Anyone know anything about QuikClot gauze?. Seems it'd be less messy and easier to use. Way too expensive for me, I'm happy with a bunch of Kerlix and other stuff in my kit for now, but it seems more practical than the other stuff.
 
The reason the IBD (Israeli Battle Dressings) are issued to our troops, LEOs, and others is because they are so effective! Plus they are small and lightweight - easy to carry on one's person or pack. One cannot fully replicate this design or its full capability with parts 'n pieces from home. It is a very well thought out bandage, designed for a wide array of “in the field” medical issues. After working with a highly experienced 18D medic/RN, an ER-MD, and a LifeFlight Trauma-RN, I’m now convinced this is the best bandage on the market for my wilderness treks and training. I keep these things in all four doors of my car, in every pack and strategically placed in my home, shop and RV.

This is an amazing piece of technology and it is more than just a pressure bandage! It is designed to be administered with one hand and even by the injured person him/herself while under stressful conditions. It is also double sealed for protection against the elements and contamination. Plus the inner and outer packaging also doubles as a seal (one package for the hole going in and one package for the hole going out) when someone has a sucking chest wound. It is designed to be easily used as a tourniquet with one hand and it has an innovative closure without the clumsy use of safety pins when hands are cold, wet and shaking.

It can be used on just about any part of the body including head wounds, all upper/lower extremities, chest, & pelvis.

The patient and ER love these bandages because it takes seconds to easily and painlessly remove…whereas Quick Clot (and other clotting agents) are slow and tedious for the ER Doctors to remove and the removal process often is very painful for the victim. Remember that stuff has to be removed in order to clean and stitch/staple it up!

I personally carry at least one 4” with a pair of Black Talon Nitrile gloves attached to the outside of the package in my cargo pocket so I always have one with me 24/7/365.

My basic rule of thumb is...I always carry two IBD's and one of them I NEVER give away or use on someone else - it is always held in reserve for me. Sound selfish but I'm of little value to my family, friends, or team if I'm dead.
 
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