Blue Handle Gunting Question

robcelani

robcelani

Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
1,178
Hoping to get some help.

I bought this recently and want more info. I found a few references to blue handle guntings but listed as not sharpened to be used as an impact tool.

I have a blue handle gunting that is sharpened, part serrated and part plain edge. The lock is frame on the top not bottom. The clip position is the same as regular guntings. Only marking is spider on the clip.

The guy it came from said he purchased a collection from a former spyderco employee and this was part of the collection. Special production or special order? Employee version?

Your knowledge and info greatly appreciated!

Thanks BladeForums! :)
 
Last edited:
It is a blade or scale swap. Would have been cooler and worth more with the correct blade.
 
robcelani said:
The lock is frame on the top not bottom.
Click to expand...
That's the Spyderco Compression Lock, a specialty of theirs. I think the Gunting was the first to use it.

I agree with rycen, someone swapped the blue handles onto a regular Gunting, or a regular blade onto the CRMIPT.

Here's the three styles:

GUNTING: a Medium Impact Tool to Edged Tool
CRMIPT: Close Range Medium ImPact Tool
DRONE: Training tool or Impact tool
 
Thanks guys, I'd go for that except the same guy has the dull blade model. I plan on getting that tomorrow.

I'll add pictures tomorrow when I get the second knife.
 
If he got it from a former employee, chances are the employee grabbed a pair of the trainer handles off the assembly line, grabbed a real blade from elsewhere on the assembly line, and put them together. While it may not be a swap per se, it's tantamount to having performed a swap. Either way, it's a frankenspydie and certainly lowers the value, as it is not a stock original and is just pieced together from two other knives, something which could easily be duplicated by anyone else with both knives. I know in the old days, quite a few non-standard Spydies managed to slip out the back door:mad:, so it's entirely possible this particular knife was an employee "back-door special".;)
 
Is the tip of the blade rounded and blunt, or pointed and sharp? IIRC, the CRMIPT had a sharpened blade with a "butter knife" style tip.
 
Sorry to tell you,that's just not the way it came from the factory.The blue or red Guntings never had sharpened blades.The difference between the two "trainers" is the red version had the points or horns rounded and the blue version was left pointy.Neither of which ever had a sharpened blade.Since you don't seem to believe me then I'll see if I can find some information from the designer.
 
Hey rycen I appreciate your informed opinion of my knife. I heard you the first time you stated it.

At the moment I am still looking for more info. The good thing is I'm gonna get the trainer today. The better thing is I live in aurora which is 30 minutes or so from golden so I can always go ask the people that made them. The best thing is this huge spyderco community with much knowledge. I know we will probably figure it out.

Thanks BladeForums! :)
 
From the man himself

BRAM said:
ahh the GUNTING SERIES: they're color coded like fire-arms..no need in trying to re-invent the wheel of safety...

Gunting:Black is sharp n real..horns, ramp n blade...it can be edged tool or impact tool.
It Cuts, rips, pinches...cool stuff

CRMIPT:blue is a working tool like a simunition gun..training blade,edges will scrape.. Sharp horns on handle, its ONLY an impact tool..Used by civilians, Body guards with no liability issues...on duty police..


DRONE:red is a trainer. Training blade- blade has rolled edges on the new series.. rounded horns and ramp..no sharp anything..its a safe trainer or an impact tool if needed...( such as security guards.., bouncers..body guards..impact tools where liability is an issue)
Click to expand...
 
I'll share the history as I remember it. It's an interesting story. I'll share the info on the current question which is really just a small part of a design history.

The concept first appeared in a design by Jot Singh Kalsa. The knife had a large hump on top of the blade that housed the opening hole. Jot (an excellent custom maker and martial artist) was doing a collaboration with Spyderco. He had to incorporate our opening hole in the design so he cleverly designed what he felt was a "top guard" to the folder.

Then James Keating (An excellent MA instructor and creator of the "Riddle of Steel" [highly recommended for the MBC enthusiast]) learned to use the large hump on Jot's knife as a "prompt" for opening the blade as well as an impact tool. Keating gave a class in a New York "Riddle" on the use of the Khalsa for martial application. I remember an article about it in a knife magazine. As I understand the sequence, Bram Frank was a student at that "Riddle". Bram then created a design specific to those features of "Kinetic opening" and using a knife for impact.

The first "version" of Bram's design was called the "Escalator" and was manufactured by Bob Taylor (Round Eye Knife and Tool - REKAT). It used a lock invented by Bob Taylor called the "Rolling Lock". (The Rolling Lock is now owned by Benchmade). The "Escalator" was produced by Taylor for a while. (I met Bram at Keating's "Riddle" that year where Bram was demonstrating the prototype of the Escalator).

Bob Taylor and I were discussing Spyderco's use of the Rolling Lock and the production of some knives for Bob Taylor as an OEM piece, in Spyderco's new factory in Golden, . We were going to begin with the Escalator and see how that went and then look at other designs.

(One of the designs that Bob Taylor and I were discussing was called the "Martial Folder". Bob still has one of our original prototypes of the "Martial folder" with a "Rolling lock" and "indexing". I had learned about indexing dents from James Keating in that same "Riddle" and thought to create an MBC design. For indexig we used a dent in the G-10 front side and a hole in the end of the clip).

Bob Taylor and Bram had a falling out and Bob announced that he would stop making the Escalator. I told Bob that Bram and I had already begun refining the "Escalator" design as an OEM for Bob. Bob got mad at me and told us we couldn't use the "Rolling Lock". (Bob Taylor and I have since "made up" and we're friends again).

After much discussion, we decided to go ahead with the Bram Frank concept. Bram worked with our people to create the "Gunting" design which was a refinbement of the "Escalator" design, which was refinement of.... We could no longer use the "Rolling Lock" and we needed a very strong lock that opened easily. I invented the "Compression Lock" to be that lock. We developed and began producing the "Gunting" version.

This brings us to the OP's question. As Esav mentioned, there were three models made at the Golden factory. The live black handled "Guntings" and the red handled "Trainer" (trainer blade & dulled handle) were sold to dealers and distributers. Then Bram wanted to make a special model that only he sold. He wanted a blue "live" handle and a dull trainer blade. That was the CRMIPT. We made those for him and shipped them all to him. A few came back with lock issues (sticking) and were repaired (by a former employee) and shipped back to him.

Spyderco never made a knife with a "live" blue handle and a "live" blade. The blue handled knives (trainer blades) that we did make were all sent to Bram. Either there was a "switch" made or parts were "liberated" and assembled.

Then Spyderco and Bram had a falling out. Spyderco sent all patents on the Gunting to Bram, cancelled all contracts and Bram was free to make the "Gunting" but was not permitted to use our "Trade-mark Round Hole" or our patented "Compression Lock".

Bram then went on to redesign the knife (I believe the new design was influenced by a Dialex design) and began making his new design with a German company.

There are many "sub stories" and "in-between" stories, but they're more private to other companies and we'll leave them out.

Hope that helps.

sal
 
Thank you Sal!

Very interesting history about a great knife. It is kinda funny to me how hurt feelings and people getting mad at each other are involved in the best knife stories.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top