Blueing/Etching Question(s)

R

richardallen

Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Messages
1,101
I was wondering if anyone has tried using H2O2 als a blueing solution. You know, the stuff for cleaning cuts, it's sold in those brown bottles. Contains about 3% H2O2. Do you think it would work ?

What else besides vinegar and citrus acid do you guys use to a achieve a really dark color ?

thanks, cheez
 
No help on the dark color.

But, if you use the mustard it will etch the pattern into the blade
(if you leave it long enough),
although the oxide does come off,
I still like the pattern it leaves behind.
 
If you search for Hydrogen peroxide over in Shop talk forum some of the makers experimented with this. If memory serves, they got some good dark color, but I can't remember if it was very durable.
 
Alright, i answered my own question. I tried it on a Chakma, figured I couldn't really destroy much. It seems that the antiseptic one with 3% has not enough acid to have any effect.

I used some vinegar on my Ang Khola, and it's quite an interesting thing to do. Sweet Spot is clearly visible now. Very nice, I like it that way. Looks like a user, and even like a stylish one.
 
I blued my 18" AK villager with Birchwood-Casey's PermaBlue gel. Did a pretty fair job and it's holding up pretty well, though I wouldn't describe it as 'really dark'. Also, my technique isn't that good yet, so the finish isn't as uniform as I'd like.
 
I'm currently blueing my chakma with oak. simply stuck it into one, we'll see what happens. My finish isn't uniform either, but I think it looks pretty cool that way, almost like it's an ancient piece.
 
Blueing is a controlled corrosion of the surface that makes it rust-resistant. Etching removes surface metal and actually increases rusting in the etched areas (if not dutifully oiled and maintained until the steel 'heals.')

I etch with FeCl, and use Permal Blue liquid to blue.

If you etch a plot, then use the Perma blue, you will get really really dark (as in black) etched areas. the jumbled surface area of an etch really holds the blue well.

Keith
 
Hmm...I just might have a little job for you Keith. We'll have to visit and talk! At the very least, maybe I could trade skills with you...
 
Aardvark, I drove it on on a sideways angle. Used a branch to make sure it's all in ;)
those little suckers stand up to more abuse than you'd think. It turned out nice btw, but 'oak blueing' doesn't seem to be very durable if you want to have it. On the other hand, it worked perfectly on knives when I didn't want it to work. Go figure :)
 
Tool Black is another product that I have had good luck with. It is supposed to be a stronger version of Perma Blue liquid. I do not use it on knives that I let come into contact with food, I use the Perma Blue liquid for that. Perma Blue liquid is supposed to be food safe but I can't find out for sure if Tool BLack is or not. You can get Tool Black at places like http://www.mscdirect.com/. I tried the Hydrogen peroxide and was unhappy with the results that I got compared to Tool black and/or Perma Blue. No matter what you try the blade nedds to be 100% clean and it helps to heat the blade with a hair dryer or hot water.
 
richardallen said:
Aardvark, I drove it on on a sideways angle. Used a branch to make sure it's all in ;)
those little suckers stand up to more abuse than you'd think. It turned out nice btw, but 'oak blueing' doesn't seem to be very durable if you want to have it. On the other hand, it worked perfectly on knives when I didn't want it to work. Go figure :)
Click to expand...
I wonder, if you make a paste (cornstarch or something) out of water that has had oak bark/chips soaking in it for a long time, whether that would 'blue' a knife.
 
Aardvark said:
I wonder, if you make a paste (cornstarch or something) out of water that has had oak bark/chips soaking in it for a long time, whether that would 'blue' a knife.
Click to expand...

Couldn't you just make a paste with the oaken sawdust? Granted, the dust would have to be very fine, or the paste wouldn't hold enough liquid to conduct the reaction. Or, since it's the tannins we're after, how about thoroughly mulching some fallen (brown) leaves into a paste and applying it? Hickory or Walnut husks would be an even better source of tannic acid. I'm just thinking out loud here- anyone else have any thoughts?
 
Hmmm. If you want really fine dust, you could use a belt sander on some scrap oak. Takes a while. I can't quite picture a paste made out of leaves. The walnut husk idea would certainly stain something, if only your fingers. I've done THAT often enough.
 
I think I'm missing something here. To blue, or in any other way color your steel, you'd need an etchant, oxygen and a salt don't you? So, would a mix of finely powdered tannin-bearing organic matter, plus some sea salt or even driveway salt, plus water or peroxide- applied to thoroughly cleaned steel- result in a "controlled oxidation" finish?

Hmm. Maybe after I set up my wood stabilizing gear again, I'll start tinkering with a new project. ;)
 
Hey, I just realized that I may have already conducted experiments with this and not known it! I always took a machete with me to the Everglades. Canoeing the wilderness waterway, I was on salt or brackish watewr half the time, and on the slow-moving tea of the freshwater slough the rest of the time. It was plenty hot as well. This environment had a dramatic effect on my blade, i.e.- it rusted the snot out of it. Perhaps if I can find a way to increase the oxygen that the steel is exposed to, I can blue my blade %100 naturally! :p
 
Didn't realize machetes (not you, man!) had snot. Who says you can't learn things as you get older?
 
Hey, I'm game, Bro! We'll hafta get together again soon.

Mark, that tool black sounds cool. I'll hafta czech that out.

Keith
 
Aardvark said:
Didn't realize machetes (not you, man!) had snot. Who says you can't learn things as you get older?
Click to expand...

Well, not snot actually- more like fish slime from chopping up mullet and ladyfish for cut bait. ;) :p :D
 
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