BM 153CM/ATS-34 compared to Spydie VG-10

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curious2003

Joined
Apr 20, 2003
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as a newbie to knives i will summarize what others have stated:

1. vg-10 only comes from japan
2. BM is made in USA so cannot get vg-10
3. BM uses ats-34 variant 153cm
4. spyderco replaced ats-55 (ats-34 variant) with vg-10 b/c supposedly "better" overall steel
5. heat treatment is also important too as good treatment of "lesser" steel can be better than mediocre treatment of "better" steel

so my question guys, is: does BM treated 153cm/ats-34 equal spyderco vg-10 in overall qualities (corrosion, sharpness, edge retention, hardness, etc)?

also in the BM site, the FAQ and others on this forum have talked about the great qualities of 440C but other sources label it a mediocre steel. What's the deal? Seems like there are so many conflicting reports i don't know what to believe! or is this a subjective thing? i thought things such as corrosion/edge retention/hardness can be empirically measured?
 
A couple of quick things:
It's 154CM, not 153.
ATS-55 is not really a "variant" of ATS-34; IIRC the molybdenum is much lower. Similar performance in some ways though.

VG-10 has much better corrosion resistance than ATS-34 and -55. On other issues the difference is not so clear-cut and could go either way. (VG-10 should be somewhat finer-grained because of the vanadium.)

Heat treatment is always important.

The same guy who now tells you that 440C is a mediocre steel used to get excited about getting a new knife in 440C. 440C was the greatest, coolest thing on earth and nothing less would do. As long as it was 440C he was happy. :)
 
so is this the same as the guy who got happy with new cell phones 10 years ago? :D so if he's happy with his 2003 one now is it b/c it's an improvement over what he had before?

so aren't these "new" steels better? or do manufacturers just keep changing them to make it seem like there are improvements and to keep people interested in buying new knives? :confused:
 
It really does depend on a lot more than the steel. any of the steels you mentioned can be used to make great knives. BM's 154CM or Spydie's VG-10 are both great. They can have slightly more specific uses (VG-10 was designed to have a slightly more coarse, "toothy" edge, to facilitate slicing). I have both and can't complain.

but from one knife to another, one maker to another, one heat treat to another, steels can be better or worse.

if you search for some of Cliff Stamp's reviews you can see how the steels perform. testing each knife individually is about the only way to really know.

talking stainless, there is sometimes a difference in corrosion reisitance, but that also depends on heat treat, as does durability, edge retention, etc.

if you buy a quality steel (VG, ATS, CPM, 440C, D2, or carbon.....) from a quality maker you'll be ok.
 
If you had four different knives, from reputable manufacturers, in 440C, ATS34, 154CM and VG-10 the biggest difference you'd notice would not be in steel type, but in the blade geometry, grind and handle ergonomics. The handle, blade geometry and grind of the 4 different knives that best suited your personal taste would trump steel type every day of the week.
 
Originally posted by curious2003

so aren't these "new" steels better? or do manufacturers just keep changing them to make it seem like there are improvements and to keep people interested in buying new knives? :confused:
Click to expand...

In my opinion, yes.

I went through a number of folders from all the major brands in lots of different steels before I found (made) my ideal knife. The differences in blade shape and overall design were important, I found that the steel was not.

Don't drive yourself nuts or avoid a knife that you otherwise like because somebody tells you that the steel is not good enough. While there is some stuff like pot metal or flatware steel that really does make for a bad knife, any reputable maker will use steel that is perfectly adequate for daily use.

I actually prefer 440C to the new "super steels". It is more stain resistant, easier to maintain, and considerably less expensive. It is actually a cutlery steel that was designed for use in knives, rather than bearing races or turbine blades. There is a reason that this was done.

I use my knives fairly hard at both work and recreation, and I have never been let down by the performance of 440C.

Manufacturers *have* to hype the latest as the greatest, because that is how they create demand. The intelligent consumer will look past the hype.
 
I have knives in VG-10, ATS34, etc., but the last knife I bought was in the "fragile" dendritic cast 440C. I bought it because of the blade ergonomics and the fact it is a production knife ground by David Boye. The flat grind with the thin edge is the sweetest slicer around. A little chip here and there is worth it given the edge that man puts on a blade.
 
I think steel counts for more than that.
Frankly I like how carbon steels cut. (Carbon meaning non-stainless like the Schrade Old Timer series, most Opinels, or a little further up, Marbles or Becker.) At least they seem to sharpen more easily than stainless steels -- but I think they bite a little better also, somehow. (Real scientific here, huh?)
Among stainless steels I really like VG-10. It just seems to sharpen up well, and cut well, like a carbon steel.
 
I believe that all the steels mentioned if heat treated properly and ground by an experienced maker will be just fine for the majority of people, it is the guys who use their knives almost daily or on their job that can utilize the "better" steels and actually tell the difference of steels. Just my two cents!
 
Edge of VG-10 dont have so excellent performance.
If you buy this steel blade, it is not recommended.
Feature of this steel is high grindability and beautiful finish.
But wear resistance of this steel is inferior to ATS-34.
I think that you must buy beautiful finished knife made from ATS-34
which is high wear resistance and is not so expensive.

But if you want to make your new knife,VG-10 may be recommended.
 
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