BM-42 … a real user ?

S

Scott Evans

Joined
Oct 4, 1998
Messages
193
When I first acquired my BM-42 at the Blade show I was more then excited. I also ran into Clay, Sniperboy and Golnick. I have been humbled and working hard ever since. For such practice the 42 is excellent and performs well. However; … now that the Honey moon is over I’m not so convinced the 42 is good for much more then show.

Sacrilege … I know but you can’t convince me that the BM-42 is up to the task of self-defense or utility.

The quest continues (for me that is) for the perfect Bali … as the 42 is not it.

I may just have to make my own.
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“We are the pilgrims masters; we shall go, always, a little farther.”
 
Interseting comments, and I'm sure you have your reasons. I have never even played with a 42, so I'm no waqy biased against you, but I'd like to hear your reasons behind your assesment. As I said, I've yet to flip one, so please share your experience in a bit more detail. Thanks, E.
 
I have confidence in both my BM-42 knives being more than adequate for self-defense and utility purposes.In fact I like the feel of the titanium better than a steel handle,and seems ample to me to knock someone into next week while closed and be a fine cutter while open.The 42 is one of the finest butterfly knives I've ever handled and like it as much as the Custom Erickson I used to own.I realize everyones taste won't be for the BM-42,but your assement amused me none the less.Just my two cents,Ralph
 
The lighter knife is great for my the style of escrima I study, it requires you to keep the weapon hand in motion at all times while making quick erratic shuffling movements, since its lighter my knife arm doesent get tired so fast. I dont see why it wouldent be a good utility blade, comfortable handles, sharp blade, whats not to like?
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Elect Cthulhu!
Why vote for the Lesser Evil?
 
The BM42 is a fine knife. It's great for show and manipulation once you get used to those lighter handles since it moves so fast. As a self-defense knife, I think it's a good as the 45 ever was, which is very good. Some people have commented on flailing be less effective with lighter handles, but I'm not a big flailer anyway. For striking, guntings, etc., it's every bit as good as the 45. And, for day-to-day utility, it's a great knife, strong and reliable.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 



A little background on my way of thinking may help clarify my perception with regard to knives and the BM-42. First, I like all knives (especially BM balis). I could, as many of you, be categorized as a “knife nut” as any knife sparks at the very least some measure of interest. That said, however; I do have a basic theme to the knives that make it into the inner circle of my collection. My true love in knives is what I call “fighters”. Among those I narrow it even further and have a section of “urban carry self defense” blades. Most in this group are fixed blades but I am always in search of the right type of folder as a back up to the FB or when the FB is not available. The problem with folders as tactical blades IMO is that they are inherently weak. Very few are selected for my collection. I have been recently moving back to the Balis as it is my opinion that a properly designed and executed bali will be stronger in the lock up than other folders of similar size and weight (again this is currently my theory). Such a Bali would from its beginning have to be designed with the self-defense roll as primary. After having and using one for nearly two months I don’t think the Self-defense role or utility for that matter was the primary concern with the making of the BM-42. Its long slender blade grinds on the thin .125” stock is not inspiring any measure of confidence with regard to lateral strength. I’ll just say it … It feels and looks weak. Also, mine has been asked to do very little cutting as I have been babying 141 of 200. However; it has gone, none the less, from shaving sharp out of the box to dead doornail dull. The only Items I can recall cutting with it have been a dozen or so strands of 550 cord and the shipping tape on a few boxes. Hardly what I would call up to hard utility standards. The sheath is a nice setup for general carry but is too slow for the self-defense roll.

All that said I do like the BM-42 for what I think it was designed for … Maneuvering (or show). The Ti handles are light and fast and very much to my liking. The quality in the manufacturing of the knife is evident and is top of the line as always from Benchmade. In fact I think it is the finest production Bali-song available, bar none.

But I won’t kid myself or develop such an emotional attachment to the thing as to say it is up to the standards of strength necessary to make it as a preferred, self-defense carry knife. Better then nothing for that roll ? … yes. Better than other available folders for that roll ? … no.

What I am looking for is a Bali designed and set up as a primary self-defense carry piece and for me the 42 is not it. I am still looking but will continue to practice with my 42 until I find it.



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“We are the pilgrims masters; we shall go, always, a little farther.”
 
The 42 is a good bali-song, and good bali-songs make good weapons. It is true that there is a limit to the blade's lateral strength, and the overall delicateness of the blade was one of the few areas for improvement that I notice. Nonetheless, it is a knife, and its effectiveness as a weapon really depends more on the skill of the user than on its strength. It will do the job, short of penetrating metal body armor or something like that.

The later custom balis came with 3/16" thick blades. That is overkill in a 4" blade length in my opinion, but it would be nice to see a real heavy duty, deluxe production version. The blade has to balance well with the handles to swing properly though, and the 42's handles are quite lite.

I can't offer any experience about blade performance in terms of edge durability. Might have to try it out.
 
my big gripe with the 42 is why don't they use ats-34 or some other super steel for the blade?

aside from that, i think the design of this knife was very well thought out (at least on paper). the problem with the other BM balis with steel handles, was that they would slam awful hard into your knuckles when you'd flip em.

i've haven't handled one yet but i'm sure the balance of the knife must be perfect for manipulations.
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I like knives.
 
While it is true that the 42 has a thin, slender blade, that is not necessarily bad for self-defense. The 42 is without a doubt a very poor chopper with its light design and minimal belly. Against any opponent protected with a jacket or even a double layer of t-shirts, I do not believe it would be able to slash through to the flesh. However, I do believe that its weehawk design was made to thrust, and this it does quite well.

The thinness of the blade, lack of belly, long, slender grinds, and the grinding away of the spine at the upper half of the blade all are desirable characteristics for a knife designed to pierce soft targets (clothing, flesh). The 42 is a dagger. It was designed as such, and should be judged as such. Whether or not you believe that a dagger is a suitable self-defense weapon is a matter of opinion, but I personally think that a small, fast, light knife that pierces soft targets well is an excellent knife in a fight. Not that useful at long range, but I believe that a knife is best kept concealed until very close range, when it can be quickly drawn and stuck into someone's side. The 42 is the type of knife that should be felt before it is seen.

If in your style of fighting you prefer to use large, heavy knives to chop with at a longer range, then the 42 is not a good knife for you. But for all the things that I need a knife for, (small cutting jobs like string or packing tape and a last resort for a fight) the 42 is an excellent knife. So while the 42 may not be well suited to your personal needs, calling it purely a show knife is very unfair.
 
12C27 is really not that poor a blade steel. It's composition is really similar to ATS-34, but lower in Carbon. The heat treat is what determines how well it ultimately performs though. The more I think about it though, with such a high-tech, special-interest piece that is gonna' cost over $100 anyway, why not use 154CM?

I'm gonna cook up some sorta Benchmade 12C27 vs. Benchmade 154CM edge holding compare-off this weekend. I'll let you know what I find out.
 
What has “fair” got to do with a tactical evaluation of a knife's capabilities? Fair to who? Please explain “fair” with regard to this or to the serious consideration of what one should arm themselves with for defensive purposes?

Someone else said that they thought the 42 would not be as effective in flailing. Another is concerned for the quality of the blade steel; another is saying it is not a slasher and still others agreeing that the lateral strength in the blade is less then other knives of the same type. … But hay it’s a great bali ….

“Bing, Bing”

… wonder why I’m thinking this knife was designed primarily for maneuvering.

… I will certainly agree that my estimation of the BM-42’s ability as a fighter or self defense weapon is simply my opinion.

I still would not have this particular Bali as my first choice in a folding defensive knife (even though I wish it were).

What I am looking for and what I was hoping for in the 42 was a first choice defensive knife. That is; a knife that folds and when compared to all other folding knives is without question a top contender when deciding what to take with me.

Yes … I would say the BM-42 is tops among the current Balis but it lags well back IMO in the big scheme of available defensive folders.

I am looking for a bali that is first choice among all other folding knives (not just balis) for a defensive role.

Hay … if you think you’ve got the “Holy Grail” of defensive folding knives in the 42 I won’t think less of you … I’ll just kindly disagree and wait for something that is more suited to the task.


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“We are the pilgrims masters; we shall go, always, a little farther.”

[This message has been edited by Scott Evans (edited 06-28-2000).]
 
Scott,
There is nothing wrong or incorrect in your remarks-its just a matter of personal preference.Reading your comments,I think you should try to get ahold of a Compass 1200 series(Cho No Shi) butterfly. Although no longer made or imported since the eighties it
pops up from time to time for sale.
It is very solid,thick,very sharp blade and extremely well made. It is an effective chopper and built like a tank. Its also a very handsome looking knife.

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Tim

 
Thanks Tim

Do you know where I might get a look at one?



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“We are the pilgrims masters; we shall go, always, a little farther.”
 
When I saw Bram Frank's Escalator, I knew that the balisong was finally obsolete as a short-range defensive folder. And now, the Spyderco Gunting solves most of the Escalator's minor issues. But, if I had to, I would gladly rely on a BM42 in a defensive situation.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 



“ … the King has no cloths … “


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“We are the pilgrims masters; we shall go, always, a little farther.”
 
Scott,

I see a little clearer where you are coming from. For example, would I rather go armed with the BM42, or my Apogee? Apogee.

But I can't go along with the indictment that the 42 was designed for twirling and twirling alone. I know I wouldn't want to face one.

 
Scott,

When I use the term "fair" in regard to evaluating a knife for self-defense purposes, I mean that it is not very fair at all to say a knife is useless for self-defense if it does not conform to your own personal style of fighting. Just because the knife is not well suited to your particular method of combat doesn't mean that it is completely made for show or twirling. Different individuals have different opinions on methods of fighting with knives, and different styles of knives are made for different styles of fighting. The 42 is more suited to a style that focuses on thrusting rather than slashing, while the type of knife that you seem to prefer is much thicker and heavier, thus better at slashing than thrusting. Neither knife is superior to the other; they're just different ways of acheiving the same result.

For example, if I were used to using a Japanese style katana sword made to chop and slash, and I came across a rapier style sword and attempted to use it in the same way, it would seem that the rapier was a terrible sword because it didn't cut well. However, that's not very fair because I'm using the rapier in a way it was not intended to be used. When used as a quick thrusting weapon, the rapier is very deadly. So while a rapier would be useless to a Japanese style swordsman, it would be very deadly in the hands of a fencer.

I agree with you that I'd rather have a heavier, thicker blade for self-defense as I prefer a more durable blade that can slash well, but we must also realize that when used as a small, quick dagger, the 42 does its job very well. I'm sure there are quite a number of people out there who can use small, quick daggers effectively, and the 42 may just be the knife for them. Hopefully I've cleared up any misunderstanding about what I mean when I talk about "fairness".
 
I think what happened is, BM got caught up in the "lighter is better" philosophy that seems to be penetrating many industries these days.

When I was out there (in April) talking to the BM staff, they were VERY surprised to hear that I didn't like light Balisongs. I think that moment was a dawning for all of us. Them, because they were feverishly designing something that suddenly might not be what people wanted......... and me because I realized they were artists when it came to making knives, but didn't entirely understand what they were being used for all the time. Live and learn.

DaJonesMan made a very good point about the Rapier -vs- the Katana though. The balisong is definitly NOT right for everybody, or for every fighting style........ but then again, the successful outcome of an attack depends more on your empty hand skills and knowledge of your weapon (strengths, limitations, etc.) than the actual weapon itself........ wouldn't you say?



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Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
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