thinking about a SD knife and i've narrowed it down to the axis afck and the commander, i think both are great knives both have g10 scales, i personally think the axis lock is better then the liner lock and d2 is better then 154cm, however i think the emerson handle is better shaped and fills the hand nicely but im left handed and i think getting a left handed commander might be hard and costly, i don't like the coating so the satin commander is a plus and the afck only comes in coated. but the afck has a reversible clip, theres good and bad things abuot both of them so what do you guys think
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BM 806D2 vs Emerson Commander
- Thread starter Manji
- Start date
Hi, just my opinion.
I have tried the 806D2.
Like:
D2 steel, cuts like the dickens, and tough
Hole opener, no obstructions on the blade and protrusion.
handle - very firm grip, a bit thicker would be better.
axis lock - the clincher!!
I have tried cutting with both liner and axis, when i use force to cut, say a piece of wood, sometimes the liner would lock up until i had to use something other than finger nail to unlock!! A definate no, no!!
Axis - however hard i used it, the action stays smoooth!!!
So as u can see axis is the one.
I have tried the 806D2.
Like:
D2 steel, cuts like the dickens, and tough
Hole opener, no obstructions on the blade and protrusion.
handle - very firm grip, a bit thicker would be better.
axis lock - the clincher!!
I have tried cutting with both liner and axis, when i use force to cut, say a piece of wood, sometimes the liner would lock up until i had to use something other than finger nail to unlock!! A definate no, no!!
Axis - however hard i used it, the action stays smoooth!!!
So as u can see axis is the one.
Hi, just my opinion.
I have tried the 806D2.
Like:
D2 steel, cuts like the dickens, and tough
Hole opener, no obstructions on the blade and protrusion.
handle - very firm grip, a bit thicker would be better.
axis lock - the clincher!!
I have tried cutting with both liner and axis, when i use force to cut, say a piece of wood, sometimes the liner would lock up until i had to use something other than finger nail to unlock!! A definate no, no!!
Axis - however hard i used it, the action stays smoooth!!!
So as u can see axis is the one.
I have tried the 806D2.
Like:
D2 steel, cuts like the dickens, and tough
Hole opener, no obstructions on the blade and protrusion.
handle - very firm grip, a bit thicker would be better.
axis lock - the clincher!!
I have tried cutting with both liner and axis, when i use force to cut, say a piece of wood, sometimes the liner would lock up until i had to use something other than finger nail to unlock!! A definate no, no!!
Axis - however hard i used it, the action stays smoooth!!!
So as u can see axis is the one.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 1999
- Messages
- 1,499
I have two AFCKs Classic 800 and Axis 806 and I have played with different Commanders numerous times.
You are right, Commander handle is comfortable and secure. On the other hand it is somewhat overbuilt what gives this knife with relatively shorter than AFCK blade quite massive feel and appearance. It is also noticeably onto heavy side for me to daily carry, Im preferring bigger but lighter folders like AFCK or SPYDERCO Military.
AFCK handle is not so massive but it is very comfortable and secure for me, quite enough for the heaviest duty imaginable for folders at all.
Commanders blade makes it somewhat oddly designed as for my taste and barely usable for me. Double sided grind completed with single sided sharpening makes it practically unusable for any sensible cutting chore excepting brandishing, people scarring, eventually destroy something. I dont want the knife what allegedly allows to kill someone but doesnt allow to cut decently bread, sausage or whittle toothpick later.
More, practically blunt tip makes it barely useful even for killing. In fact Im not sure for what tasks it could be used efficiently, excepting people scarring of course. Maybe for game skinning?
AFCK blade is sharpened on both sides and this makes it useful for all imaginable cutting tasks. Also the tip is suitable both for stabbing in SD situations and for fine tip work in peaceful tasks.
All said justifies my choice AFCK.
You are right, Commander handle is comfortable and secure. On the other hand it is somewhat overbuilt what gives this knife with relatively shorter than AFCK blade quite massive feel and appearance. It is also noticeably onto heavy side for me to daily carry, Im preferring bigger but lighter folders like AFCK or SPYDERCO Military.
AFCK handle is not so massive but it is very comfortable and secure for me, quite enough for the heaviest duty imaginable for folders at all.
Commanders blade makes it somewhat oddly designed as for my taste and barely usable for me. Double sided grind completed with single sided sharpening makes it practically unusable for any sensible cutting chore excepting brandishing, people scarring, eventually destroy something. I dont want the knife what allegedly allows to kill someone but doesnt allow to cut decently bread, sausage or whittle toothpick later.
More, practically blunt tip makes it barely useful even for killing. In fact Im not sure for what tasks it could be used efficiently, excepting people scarring of course. Maybe for game skinning?
AFCK blade is sharpened on both sides and this makes it useful for all imaginable cutting tasks. Also the tip is suitable both for stabbing in SD situations and for fine tip work in peaceful tasks.
All said justifies my choice AFCK.
i have a 806D2 and a commander, and, personally, if i could have only one, would take the 806. of all my EKI stuff, the commander is the one i carry the least, dont get me wrong its ok, just not as good as a spec-war/SOCFK/waved CQC7 imho, i guess i like those tanto blades. and i like the AFCK handle vs the commander handle myself, imho the AFCK is one of the all time greats, a classic, ya can still get the AFCK 800 at www.newgraham.com (i think) for like $70 or so, a great deal for a great knife.
the big plus for the commander is the wave, but ya can open the axis BM knives almost as fast and they prob are more sturdy than a liner, but have never had any lock probs w/EKI either, the wave is something else though, once ya try it you will like it i bet
but, overall i would prob take the 806, keep in mind the AFCK is one of my all time favs though, really fits my hand well, i'm sure others will disagreee w/me on this one, no 'dis' to ernie meant, the SOCFK IS my all time fac production knife!!
the grind is kinda funky, but once ya get used to sharpening them, ya can get them plenty sharp,, and bandityo rebeveled one of mine to a std 'v' grind, and its really sharp also, but the std one will also get plenty sharp too, just takes some getting used to, for me anyway.
greg
the big plus for the commander is the wave, but ya can open the axis BM knives almost as fast and they prob are more sturdy than a liner, but have never had any lock probs w/EKI either, the wave is something else though, once ya try it you will like it i bet
but, overall i would prob take the 806, keep in mind the AFCK is one of my all time favs though, really fits my hand well, i'm sure others will disagreee w/me on this one, no 'dis' to ernie meant, the SOCFK IS my all time fac production knife!!
the grind is kinda funky, but once ya get used to sharpening them, ya can get them plenty sharp,, and bandityo rebeveled one of mine to a std 'v' grind, and its really sharp also, but the std one will also get plenty sharp too, just takes some getting used to, for me anyway.
greg
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2001
- Messages
- 2,750
Personally, I would pick the Commander. As mentioned, the Commander has a very ergonomic handle which fits even the largest hands and although it has a liner lock, I haven't really had any bad luck with the ones I've owned. The recurve blade is huge to say the least and chops/cuts like the dickens. True, the chisel grind does take some getting used to, but with some practice, you can get em really sharp faster than any other blade. I don't really know enough about D-2 to make a comparison to 154-CM, but from my experience, the Commander holds an edge very well (even though it really doesnt' feel sharp...it is deceiving!). I still like the AFCK and I hope that they come out with an AXIS Mini AFCK but I just like the Commander more.
Have a good one,
Matt
Have a good one,
Matt
They sell for the same price as the "older" versions, too.Being a die-hard Commander fan, I'm going to tell you that it sounds like you need the AFCK... based on what you said, what you're looking for, I'd say go with an AFCK.
(And as a note... the Commander tip isnt "blunt" as was stated. Its a stronger tip, not as fine as on the AFCK, but it stabs, into all sorts of things, plenty well. Figuring you can kill with a screw-driver by stabbing, I dont see the commander's stronger point design as a weak-point in the design... infact I like that there is extra stength on the point. But thats just me I guess.)
(And as a note... the Commander tip isnt "blunt" as was stated. Its a stronger tip, not as fine as on the AFCK, but it stabs, into all sorts of things, plenty well. Figuring you can kill with a screw-driver by stabbing, I dont see the commander's stronger point design as a weak-point in the design... infact I like that there is extra stength on the point. But thats just me I guess.)
I have owned both the Commander and the AFCK. The wave is very cool, but I like the waved CQC7 better than the Commander.
Here are the reasons that I like the AFCK. Excellent ergonomics, blade shape, blade steel, superior lock-up. The only thing I do not like is the dang black coating.
Attention Benchmade: Make me a satin finished 806D2!!! I have got a whole can of Sheath that will take care of it double-time. Big D1
Here are the reasons that I like the AFCK. Excellent ergonomics, blade shape, blade steel, superior lock-up. The only thing I do not like is the dang black coating.
Attention Benchmade: Make me a satin finished 806D2!!! I have got a whole can of Sheath that will take care of it double-time. Big D1
thanks for the suggestions, from what i've researched and whati got from this thread heres my thoughts
AFCK axis has the better lock and the better steel. And i admit the afck has a good handle but i think the wider emerson handle is better cause you can really grip it hard. personally i think the afck is just a glorified BM ascent, same handle shape and blade shape with better materials and construction. i have a bm ascent and i have to say the commander handle i like more. i also like the recurve very much, as for piercing i think the afck would pierce better, i have a kershaw boa and a camilus EDC which have a very similar blade shape and they pierce ok but not as good as my BM 943 and 845. the weight isn't really an issue actually i would like it if it was actually heavier, i would actually have preferred a nice heat treated steel liner rather then the Ti liners. anyways i think i'll end up getting the commander for now, personally i do think the afck is a better knife and a better deal (price wise) but i've always wanted a commander ever since i got into knives so i guess i'll get one since it haunts me all the time! i'll probably get the afck later, im still hoping they would make a satin finish afck axis and a satin finish mini afck axis. thanks
AFCK axis has the better lock and the better steel. And i admit the afck has a good handle but i think the wider emerson handle is better cause you can really grip it hard. personally i think the afck is just a glorified BM ascent, same handle shape and blade shape with better materials and construction. i have a bm ascent and i have to say the commander handle i like more. i also like the recurve very much, as for piercing i think the afck would pierce better, i have a kershaw boa and a camilus EDC which have a very similar blade shape and they pierce ok but not as good as my BM 943 and 845. the weight isn't really an issue actually i would like it if it was actually heavier, i would actually have preferred a nice heat treated steel liner rather then the Ti liners. anyways i think i'll end up getting the commander for now, personally i do think the afck is a better knife and a better deal (price wise) but i've always wanted a commander ever since i got into knives so i guess i'll get one since it haunts me all the time! i'll probably get the afck later, im still hoping they would make a satin finish afck axis and a satin finish mini afck axis. thanks
- Joined
- Nov 25, 1999
- Messages
- 1,499
AFCK 806D2 has pretty thick steel liners, at least 1,5 times thicker than Commander ones.
i would look at the EKI SOCFK also, a better knife than a commander imho, and cheaper also, and is waved......my fav production knife, cant say enuff good about it, and they run about $139.99 from www.tacticaledge.com, the only place that sells them new, tanto or SP blade,black/green G10, black or SF blade also. check them out, ya wont regret it
greg
greg
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2002
- Messages
- 343
If you're carrying the knife in your pocket, the MiniCommander is a more comfortable, lighter knife than the full size. It's not that much smaller, just enough to be more easily - and less intrusively - carried. Exact same ergos and materials in a 15% smaller package.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
This is a case, IMO, where you'll be happy with either knife, they are both solid. My own personal opinion is that liner locks aren't suitable for hard duty use, so for me, the Commander wouldn't be in the running. However, since you obviously don't have the same qualms, I'll ignore my own issue here.
Both knife have great handles, IMO. For my hands, the Emerson probably provides a slightly safer but less comfortable handle, the AFCK a more comfortable handle that gives me a better feel for where the knife is. D-2 axis AFCK has way better steel, you'll be able to really thin the edge out for killer performance. But the Commander's recurved blade will give killer slicing ability based on geometry alone. I personally greatly prefer the AFCK's much more pointed tip for these uses, others prefer the Commander's. Wave plus disk is a fantastic opening system, but so is the hole.
If liner vs. axis doesn't make the final decision for you, I'd suggest handling both and seeing which fits your hand better.
Joe
Both knife have great handles, IMO. For my hands, the Emerson probably provides a slightly safer but less comfortable handle, the AFCK a more comfortable handle that gives me a better feel for where the knife is. D-2 axis AFCK has way better steel, you'll be able to really thin the edge out for killer performance. But the Commander's recurved blade will give killer slicing ability based on geometry alone. I personally greatly prefer the AFCK's much more pointed tip for these uses, others prefer the Commander's. Wave plus disk is a fantastic opening system, but so is the hole.
If liner vs. axis doesn't make the final decision for you, I'd suggest handling both and seeing which fits your hand better.
Joe
If I may say a few things in addition:
D-2 is the better blade steel, but 154CM is very very excellent blade steel.
There is nothing inferior about a well built liner lock IMHO
but I am curious why you would want hardened steel as the liners. If there is a liner lock, this would not function very well at all. I think stainless steel liners (which cannot be heat treated as far as I know) are inferior to the titanium liners. The Ti is corrosion resistant, very light weight, and for the purposes of a lock engagement, are flexible yet hardly breakable (unlike steel).
Unlike a blade which is made from hardened steel, a liner does not have to hold an edge, and is not in much danger of chipping or breaking.
D-2 is the better blade steel, but 154CM is very very excellent blade steel.
There is nothing inferior about a well built liner lock IMHO
but I am curious why you would want hardened steel as the liners. If there is a liner lock, this would not function very well at all. I think stainless steel liners (which cannot be heat treated as far as I know) are inferior to the titanium liners. The Ti is corrosion resistant, very light weight, and for the purposes of a lock engagement, are flexible yet hardly breakable (unlike steel).
Unlike a blade which is made from hardened steel, a liner does not have to hold an edge, and is not in much danger of chipping or breaking.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
I think both the titanium and steel folks have points on their side. Titanium is lightweight, nicely suited to the task, and galls against the tang providing a bit of extra protection. Stainless steel also works fine, and steel is stronger and more wear-resistant than titanium.
Many makers were switching to titanium, but then a wave of switching back to steel occurred. That's because titanium liners were wearing very quickly, and once the liner reaches the far side of the handle, some servicing has to be done. Stainless wears much more slowly, is stronger anyway, and hey it's less expensive anyway, the only problem is that it's heavy.
Joe
although titanium may be the more exotic steel and basically corrosion resistant i was thinking that good old fashioned steel here would be stronger, less flex, and last longer, also i want it to be heavier, currently weight and size is not really a big problem, im planning on carrying it in a kydex sheath, i do admit the afck axis may is better and cheaper but i think whats going to win out here for me is purely because i "like" the commander better, this is a very similar situation i had with a BM 943 and a spyderco chinese folder, currently i have both but for me i think the BM 943 is a much better knife quality and practicality wise but i just plain like the spyderco better. and i don't really like liner locks but i've come to accept the fact that a lot of knives i like and will like will probably be liner lock, so until BM lets everyone else use the axis lock i'm stuck with what i can get. thanks for all the opinions!