BOB, PFAK suggestions

B

badger_69

Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
58
Hi,
I havent posted in this section before, but i have decided its time to be a bit more prepared. I want to set up a BOB to enable me and my family to stay in a safe place for a bit if needed. There are a few cold war observation posts near me which provide very servicable shelter for 3 adults (underground too!) so shelter is not a problem. I want a bag about 30 to 45 litres to carry my kit in, what are your suggestions? I am interested in maxpedition, and noticed kifaru too but they seem a bit overpriced. What are you all using? Also i want to put together a medical kit to cover our needs, and have sorted out the following list:

4" Israeli compression bandage x 1
6" Israeli comp. bandage x 1
Quikclot x 3
SAM splint x 1
Triangular bandage x 2
Large field dressing x 2
Micrpore tape x 2
Gauze roll x 8
Disposable scalpel x 1
Marker pen x 1
Alcohol wipes x 20
Iodine wipes x 20
Burns Gel x 2
Anti bacterial cream x 2
20ml syringe x 2
5 ml syringe x 2
Chap stick x 2
Sterile scalpel blades x 2
Gaffer tape x 2m
Puritabs x 20
Eye drops x 2
Antacid x 10
Aspirin x 50
Paracetamol x 20
Antibiotics x 2 courses
Benadryl x 20
Elastoplast x 20
Safety pins x 5
Tweezers x 2
Artery forceps x 2
Magnifying glass x 1
Rehydration salts x 10
Cocodamol x 30
Immodium x 10
ENT shears x 1
Sterile saline x 5
Elastic bandage x 2
Sterile gauze pads x 12
Antifungal cream x 1
New skin x 1
Potassium Permanganate x 50g
Steri strips x 20
Surgical gloves x 5 pairs
Compeed plasters x 10

Anything i missed? And is this over the top for 2 adults and 2 kids? Will i need a huge bag for all this? Please give me any advice you have,
Thanks in advance
 
badger_69 said:
Hi,
I havent posted in this section before, but i have decided its time to be a bit more prepared. I want to set up a BOB to enable me and my family to stay in a safe place for a bit if needed. There are a few cold war observation posts near me which provide very servicable shelter for 3 adults (underground too!) so shelter is not a problem. I want a bag about 30 to 45 litres to carry my kit in, what are your suggestions? I am interested in maxpedition, and noticed kifaru too but they seem a bit overpriced. What are you all using? Also i want to put together a medical kit to cover our needs, and have sorted out the following list:

4" Israeli compression bandage x 1
6" Israeli comp. bandage x 1
Quikclot x 3
SAM splint x 1
Triangular bandage x 2
Large field dressing x 2
Micrpore tape x 2
Gauze roll x 8
Disposable scalpel x 1
Marker pen x 1
Alcohol wipes x 20
Iodine wipes x 20
Burns Gel x 2
Anti bacterial cream x 2
20ml syringe x 2
5 ml syringe x 2
Chap stick x 2
Sterile scalpel blades x 2
Gaffer tape x 2m
Puritabs x 20
Eye drops x 2
Antacid x 10
Aspirin x 50
Paracetamol x 20
Antibiotics x 2 courses
Benadryl x 20
Elastoplast x 20
Safety pins x 5
Tweezers x 2
Artery forceps x 2
Magnifying glass x 1
Rehydration salts x 10
Cocodamol x 30
Immodium x 10
ENT shears x 1
Sterile saline x 5
Elastic bandage x 2
Sterile gauze pads x 12
Antifungal cream x 1
New skin x 1
Potassium Permanganate x 50g
Steri strips x 20
Surgical gloves x 5 pairs
Compeed plasters x 10

Anything i missed? And is this over the top for 2 adults and 2 kids? Will i need a huge bag for all this? Please give me any advice you have,
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...


No, I think you have everything. :eek:


Can I ask what you are going to do with these?
Disposable scalpel x 1
Sterile scalpel blades x 2
Paracetamol x 20
Artery forceps x 2
Cocodamol x 30
Potassium Permanganate x 50g

And what you are planning on loading into these?
20ml syringe x 2
5 ml syringe x 2

I assume that these are actually EMT shears?
ENT shears x 1


Add more shears, maybe loose some of the other stuff like the artery forceps and the 20 doses of Paracetamol and 30 doses of Cocodamol. I don't even know what that stuff is. If you do then maybe you should keep it then. :D If the Potassium permanganate is for purifying water there are probably better things like betadine that have many uses that I don't see on your list.

Sterile saline is very heavy (as is all water) and I don't know of a use that drinking quality water won't fill unless you are using it as IV? But I didn't see any IV starting equipment.

Especially important is what your groups special needs for medication would be. Make sure you have enough of that medication and be espcially vigiliant about rotating any stock so that it doesn't expire.

If you mention some answers it will help with other suggestions. Mostly to probably lighten the load and adding multi purpose items.

FWIW,
KR

CT EMT-D
NREMT-B
Wilderness EMT
 
paracetamol = tylenol
cocodamol = opiate with tylenol

both are good to have in kit

We have irrigation syringes in our main FAK

You may want to add several of the crushable cold paks and several of the heat paks that are available.

We've thought about antibiotics, but it would seem to me that shelf life would be limited. That said, if you're going to have antibiotics, have enough for every person, otherwise you might try and spread the 2 courses into 4, if everyone is infected with some bacterial infection, or worse yet, having to decide who gets them and who doesn't.
 
Badger what I see is sort of a combination of a combat FAK and a family survival FAK. My first question is do you plan on using what you have as a pre-hospital FAK or something longer term? I have more questions after you answer. BTW along with what kr1 says you also have items that can't be used together. I won't comment on antibiotics unless they're intended for use in humans. Waiting to hear back...
 
badger_69 said:
Hi,
I havent posted in this section before, but i have decided its time to be a bit more prepared. I want to set up a BOB to enable me and my family to stay in a safe place for a bit if needed. There are a few cold war observation posts near me which provide very servicable shelter for 3 adults (underground too!) so shelter is not a problem. I want a bag about 30 to 45 litres to carry my kit in, what are your suggestions? I am interested in maxpedition, and noticed kifaru too but they seem a bit overpriced. What are you all using?

Anything i missed? And is this over the top for 2 adults and 2 kids? Will i need a huge bag for all this? Please give me any advice you have,
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...


I only have first aid training, you have way more FAK stuff than I can comment on.

My first observation is about your Plan, not the pack and contents.
How many other people will also go to these cold war shelters?
Are tou planning on becoming the field doctor for all of them? One they find you have "stuff" , you may end up using it on others.

On to the pack, is this in combo with other needs?
Food, water, tools, etc?? Or only for this FAK that is listed?

Everyone speaks highly of the Maxpedition, but, you seem to have the idea you will be going from Point A to Point B and hunkering down. A suitcase would almost do just as well.

Finally, as we have discussed recently, what scenario do you foresee Bugging Out from? I ask because a BackPack is more suited for compact convenience carry and high mobility. With a family involved, your mobility will be a lot less than as an individual.
With this being said, perhaps a soft sided bag with shoulder strap would do just as well, perhaps hold even more?

Just some fuel for thought.
 
I have used a pocket knife to remote big splinters from my hands before and it wasnt too much fun, so i included the scalpel and blades for this sort of delicate thing. the syringes are indeed for irrigating wounds, i wouldnt attempt to try administering injectable meds myself. The KMnO4 is in there as a multi purpose substance, as well as disinfecting and cleansing it can be used as a fire starter if need be. I want this to be a kit that can patch someone up from pretty much any injury until such a time that we can get to a hospital, sort of along the lines of a field medic i guess. The pack i am after is to carry this kit, as well as equipment, clothing, water filter, fire making kit and clothing. The shelters i am talking about are small 3 man observation posts dotted around the countryside. Very few people know that they even exist, fewer know where they are and the only visible structure above ground is a ventilation tower that looks like a man hole, so it shouldnt be a problem keeping our heads down. You do need to walk for a mile or two to get to them, so a rucksack would suit me better. Please let me know any more questions you have.
 
The antibiotics would be suitable for humans, i would not consider giving my family veterinary drugs if that is what was being hinted at. But the storage conditions have to be pretty tightly controlled so i may give them a miss.
 
Thanks for expanding on your ideas badger. I'm not against antibiotics per se, but you have to know that you have a bacterial infection prior to administering them. I have problems with ear infections, have had for 40 years. I carry a Z-pack just for that problem when I travel. My doctor recommended that. I will not use the Z-pack if I have a cold!

A friend of mine who is an MD works at a large clinic here. They try to get every Pt to fill out a survey before they leave. Something like 90% feel they were treated correctly if their doc gave them some sort of Rx. Most come in with an URI and want antibiotics. If the doc explains to them that they have a viral infection and that he won't prescribe antibiotics for it they fill out the form as "unsatisfied" and "unlikely to return".

Over use of antibiotics is a global problem in that bacteria mutate and become resistant to common antibiotics. Our pastor and another friend of mine both were recently treated for MRSH. If you haven't heard of this, look it up. Very nasty. For years I saw staph infections in the local transient aka bum population while serving as a full time firefighter. My policy was to never shake hands with them but just to wave. Quite a few of the regulars knew what the wave was about and agreed shaking hands should be avoided.

BTW TB and whooping cough went through our department at various times also.
 
2dogs said:
Thanks for expanding on your ideas badger. I'm not against antibiotics per se, but you have to know that you have a bacterial infection prior to administering them. I have problems with ear infections, have had for 40 years. I carry a Z-pack just for that problem when I travel. My doctor recommended that. I will not use the Z-pack if I have a cold!
Click to expand...

2dogs,

What is a Z-pack?
 
2dogs said:
Over use of antibiotics is a global problem in that bacteria mutate and become resistant to common antibiotics. Our pastor and another friend of mine both were recently treated for MRSH. If you haven't heard of this, look it up. Very nasty. For years I saw staph infections in the local transient aka bum population while serving as a full time firefighter.
Click to expand...

I assume you are refering to MRSA (methicillin resistant Staphylococcus aureus) pronounced mursa? And you are of course correct about misuse of antibiotics.


Z-pack is Zithromax.

KR
 
MRSA is a massive problem in our hospitals here in England, i have quite a few friends who work in healthcare who tell me the truth, as opposed to what the government and press let us know. Bearing all this in mind i think i am as well to leave the antibiotics out. Thanks for all the help so far, do you have any more ideas or recommendations?
 
2dogs said:
Thanks for expanding on your ideas badger. I'm not against antibiotics per se, but you have to know that you have a bacterial infection prior to administering them. I have problems with ear infections, have had for 40 years. I carry a Z-pack just for that problem when I travel. My doctor recommended that. I will not use the Z-pack if I have a cold!

A friend of mine who is an MD works at a large clinic here. They try to get every Pt to fill out a survey before they leave. Something like 90% feel they were treated correctly if their doc gave them some sort of Rx. Most come in with an URI and want antibiotics. If the doc explains to them that they have a viral infection and that he won't prescribe antibiotics for it they fill out the form as "unsatisfied" and "unlikely to return".

Over use of antibiotics is a global problem in that bacteria mutate and become resistant to common antibiotics. Our pastor and another friend of mine both were recently treated for MRSH. If you haven't heard of this, look it up. Very nasty. For years I saw staph infections in the local transient aka bum population while serving as a full time firefighter. My policy was to never shake hands with them but just to wave. Quite a few of the regulars knew what the wave was about and agreed shaking hands should be avoided.

BTW TB and whooping cough went through our department at various times also.
Click to expand...

HA ha ha. Yes, I notice the same thing in my ER as well. Many people have a diagnosis of "viral syndrome". It passes with time, and you just treat the symptoms, but they want an antibiotic still. Uninformed people.

They don't understand that passing out antibiotics causes resistance in organisms that multiply and mutate and become resistant, faster then any animal can.

I have read and believe that stats on the ER and urgent care numbers. That is, aproximately 70% of the people coming into the ER actually don't have an emergency. I never could understand why someone would wait 4 hours in the lobby, then an hour in the room to get diagnosed and given an over the counter medication after a 15 minute exam.

As to they syringes above, I irrigate wounds with them. If a cut is somewhat deep, you want to put pressurized Normal Saline with Providone Iodine solutions to wash out the wound as best as possible.

You can also self adminster a local anesthetic, if you can get one and are trained to do so. Which I am, before suturing a wound. Or syringes can be used to start IV's in the field. You just need an IV start kit, then flush the catheter in, then hook up your fluids, usually, Normal Saline.

http://erdept.smugmug.com/gallery/2313164

You can get this stuff anywhere. In Cali, you can do down to Mexico and get just about anything in the world or a simple internet search. I notice that some sites officially post that they don't sell, such and such, but upon paying, they ship it to you anyway. I don't suggest that anyone start their own IV's, without training as you may introduce an infection that may lead to rheumatic heart condition that will be with you for the rest of your life.

Without beign able to get prescription meds, I highly suggest OTC meds as listed above (unless you are allergic to any) Additionally, I am not advocating anyone try anything that I suggest. I'm just saying what I do. They may even save your life, as in the case of simple Benadryl or allow you to tolerate pain that would otherwise cause you to be immobile, such as motrin.

Ditto on the MRSA and VRE (Vancomycin Resistant Entero..). We just assume that all care facility patients are infected and take universal precautions. Glove, gown, mask, etc. Heck, I probably have it already. Last week, I was exposed to Listeria Meningitis. As some of you front line providers know, you get exposure to a lot of stuff, seeing the patient and trying to save their azz before any work-up is ever performed.
 
Interesting about the resistant bacteria. In 1992, I'd just finished a summer as EMT for a major Boy Scout camp, and had seen the doctors who volunteered their services to the camp using Bactroban / mupirocin ointment on local staph infections. It was like a silver bullet--knocked out infections with a speed I just about couldn't believe.

I then went to England and started studying there. The term started in October. One of the first fellow grad-students I met as I was unpacking my bags at the university was doing doctoral research in immunology, and I happened to mention what I'd seen mupirocin do in the western U.S. a couple of months before. "That doesn't work over here," he said--telling me that for some time, the local staph bugs had been immune to mupirocin. Now, admittedly, his experience was with one of the better teaching hospitals in the U.K., and I imagine that they got a disproportionate share of the really-tough cases. Still, I'm not sure I've ever seen anybody more worried about future calamity than that immunologist. I mean, he was downright scared.
 
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