bohler n690

SpartanSaint

SpartanSaint

Joined
Jun 17, 2010
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I have a burger lexk in bound, and I'm curious about how the steel behaves. And if anyone knows how hard they run it that'd be great!

Mostly I wanna know what kind of edge it takes, toothy or fine? Does it work well in a thin edge? Prone to rolling or chipping? Good edge holding? How's the stain resistance? Etc etc

And then most importantly, what are your guys' experiences with the like? Any comparable steels that act similar to It?

Thanks much!
 
Here's what little I've heard (or feel relatively safe inferring) about it...

I've seen it compared to both 440C and VG-10 in various places, so I think it's safe to assume the stain resistance is excellent. From the composition I'd also expect it to be similar to VG-10 or 154CM in terms of edge-holding.
 
Ankerson ranks it in the same group as S30V at Rc 60, ATS-34, and S35VN. So it should be a good performer.
 
It's not in the S30V class. It's in the VG-10, 154CM class .Takes a fine edge ,easy to sharpen. Was my EDC for 1 + year and had no complaints.
 
mete said:
It's not in the S30V class. It's in the VG-10, 154CM class .Takes a fine edge ,easy to sharpen. Was my EDC for 1 + year and had no complaints.
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So it doesn't hold an edge as long? Though I suppose that depends on heat treatment too. Some steels just behave differently with a point or two of Rc. I was under the impression that Burger knives are semi-custom, so I would think it would be on the higher range of hardness.
 
this alloy is actually better than the performance seen in most factory offerings. takes a super sharp edge & burger probably tweaks it to a more surprising performance. i would'nt be surprised if it came close to s30 with a customized heattreat.--dennis
 
S30V has a good bit of vanadium and those vanadium carbides are very wear resistant andthat puts S30V in a different class .Don't confuse hardness with wear resistance .
 
Noctis3880 said:
So it doesn't hold an edge as long? Though I suppose that depends on heat treatment too. Some steels just behave differently with a point or two of Rc. I was under the impression that Burger knives are semi-custom, so I would think it would be on the higher range of hardness.
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I have a had a few Burger knives in N690. I dont know what he does with the steel but it holds an edge great for hunting and EDC tasks IMO. Slightly under S30V and D2 in my chores and holds its edge better then 154CM (Benchmade).

Do remember that Ankerson does not test to full dullness, only initial sharpness. At a certain stage composition in a blade does start playing a role in performance (NOTE I am not slamming Ankerson, I appreciate his testing greatly).

S30V is also made during a different process then 154CM, N690 or D2. This also affects the alloy.

Here is a reference to composition between the steels.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=154CM,440C,D2,N690,CPM S30V&ni=51,420,196,521,276

Burger does full custom jobs as well and one can ask him for S30V and D2 options in normal offerings.

SpartanSaint said:
Mostly I wanna know what kind of edge it takes, toothy or fine? Does it work well in a thin edge? Prone to rolling or chipping? Good edge holding? How's the stain resistance? Etc etc
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The edge can take a really fine well polished (mirror) edge. My edge has a 10 degree per side (20 degrees inclusive) for a while and it held up fine for EDC. Hunting wise made me put a 20 degree per side (40 degree inclusive) micro bevel on her.

The edge tends to role rather then chip.

Stain resistance is excellent IMO. Had mine around salt water and swimming pools for some time without any issues. Trevor Burger himself had been diving with his knives and minor rust spots accord after 3 weeks of 3 hours per day diving without any rinse of the knife.
 
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SpartanSaint said:
So can I reasonably expect it to hold an edge better or worse than my sebenza
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That depends on your uses really. No one can tell you that it will be worse or better then S30V because your uses will vary from others, but given the fact that S30V is manufactured in a more modern approach (through Crucible steels powder metallurgy production process) and it element properties including higher Carbon content it should be worse at the same Rockwell Hardness.

However the process involved in the Heat Treat (including quenching process and amount of reheating) all plays a vital role.

The best thing to do is use it and sharpen it and see if it fits your needs.
 
I'm just tryin to get a feel for it before it gets here... just waiting now

What does the cobalt do for the steel exactly?
 
marthinus said:
Do remember that Ankerson does not test to full dullness, only initial sharpness. At a certain stage composition in a blade does start playing a role in performance (NOTE I am not slamming Ankerson, I appreciate his testing greatly).
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My categories are what they are, the steels that are in the same category will have around the same performance as the the other steels in the same category. That doesn't mean exactly the same and they aren't in order because I don't rank from best to last or even try to.

My testing should give people a general idea of how the steel could perform compared to other steels, but as always nothing is set in stone.

I test to a certain point, that being 20 LBS of down pressure slicing through the 5/8" rope testing the down pressure every 20 cuts. But no, I don't test until completely dull because there isn't any way to test that accurately without machine testing.

On N690, it's a great general purpose steel and will hold an edge well, it's a very agressive cutter too with a coarse edge when compared to some other steels.
 
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SpartanSaint

Here is a good read on elements and their affects

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelelements.shtml

Ankerson said:
My categories are what they are, the steels that are in the same category will have around the same performance as the the other steels in the same category. That doesn't mean exactly the same and they aren't in order because I don't rank from best to last or even try to.

My testing should give people a general idea of how the steel could perform compared to other steels, but as always nothing is set in stone.

I test to a certain point, that being 20 LBS of down pressure slicing through the 5/8" rope testing the down pressure every 20 cuts. But no, I don't test until completely dull because there isn't any way to test that accurately without machine testing.

On N690, it's a great general purpose steel and will hold an edge well, it's a very agressive cutter too with a coarse edge when compared to some other steels.
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I fully understand the points you are making Ankerson and we had this discussion in your thread already. If possible you would test to dull and with a machine such as www.catra.org but it is expensive equipment. I do appreciate your effort nun the less.
 
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marthinus said:
SpartanSaint

Here is a good read on elements and their affects

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelelements.shtml



I fully understand the points you are making Ankerson and we had this discussion in your thread already. If possible you would test to dull and with a machine such as www.catra.org but it is expensive equipment. I do appreciate your effort nun the less.
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Oh I know, I just wanted to add that to the thread just in case things started to get misinterpreted. :)
 
This discussion is beneficial to me as well, as I've had my eye on a couple knives in this steel...
 
interesting. sounds like it takes a very fine edge yet holds a working edge for a while. still, can anyone tell me what it is the cobalt adds to the matrix? n690 is the only steel in these comparisons that has it

i'd like it to be known also that in my experience 154cm [benchmade] doesn't hold an edge nearly as well as d2 [benchmade] nor s30v [crk], not by a long shot. so comparing it to d2 and s30v makes me happy, comparing it to 154cm makes me sad
 
I have N690Co on a Benchmade Monochrome and BM Rant, haven't used the Rant much, but I really liked it on the Monochrome, easy to sharpen up very sharp, holds an edge well, VG-10 category IME, easier/faster to sharpen than S30V/D2. I really liked it overall. If I remember correctly the Cobalt adds to the edge holding, without it, it would be in the 440C category of edge holding.
 
SpartanSaint said:
interesting. sounds like it takes a very fine edge yet holds a working edge for a while. still, can anyone tell me what it is the cobalt adds to the matrix? n690 is the only steel in these comparisons that has it
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In the link I provided the following is stated about Cobalt

Cobalt (Co)
- Increases hardness, also allows for higher quenching temperatures(during the heat treatment procedure). Intensifies the individual effects of other elements in more complex steels. Co is not a carbide former, however adding Cobalt to the alloy allows for higher attainable hardness and higher red hot hardness.
 
marthinus said:
In the link I provided the following is stated about Cobalt

Cobalt (Co)
- Increases hardness, also allows for higher quenching temperatures(during the heat treatment procedure). Intensifies the individual effects of other elements in more complex steels. Co is not a carbide former, however adding Cobalt to the alloy allows for higher attainable hardness and higher red hot hardness.
Click to expand...

I just saw that. Now I'm very interested in how hard burger runs it in their knives
 
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