Bohler-u? Carpenter? Crucible?

B

Billywill

Joined
Feb 16, 2013
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Which manufacturer has the best steels? Toughness, and wear resistance/edge retention being criteria.
Not the best particular steel per say, but the manufacturing processes/metallurgy.
Had a knife maker recently tell me BU used 3rd gen manufacturing compaired to 1st gen by crucible, meaning the particles used are smaller and therefore the steel was more uniform making it tougher and more wear resistant even if the particular elements used and there proportions are close or identical. This made sense to me the lay knife fanatic. Just wondering if anyone out there can confirm or comment on different manufacturing processes and there impact on similarly constructed steels.
Thanks,
 
Well, physics is physics, so when one company makes progress, it won't be long before the others duplicate it or come close. My money is on the Japanese, who invented ZDP-189 (the Hissatsu plant, if I recall), and the process to laminate it to more tensile steels to increase flexibility. They are on the cutting edge (pun intended) of powder metallurgy.

But the average joe, like me, would have a difficult time telling the difference between any of the top steels. So I don't try. I rely on the knife-makers to use the best steel for the intended use of their blades, at the cost they can charge.
 
I think Bohler makes the best steels. ELMAX and M390 are awesome examples of what bohler can do with moderate amounts of carbide formers. They are by far my favorite PM steels to work with. They grind better, finish better, and seem to take a little bit keener edge than Crucible steels.
 
Who makes the steel doesn't matter. What the steel is does. Well okay who makes it does matter a bit (otherwise BD1 wouldn't be so much better than AUS-8, they are very chemically similar). As far as the powder steels go, the steel is all that really matters.

Personally, I prefer Boehler steels, just because their name is so much cooler sounding. And Elmax is awesome.
 
I hear that term 1st, 2nd, 3rd generation... but is that a standard used across all manufacturers, or is it their own proprietary process development?

After the (admittedly very limited) research I've done it's hard to form any opinion on one manufacturer versus another.

I'm very interested to see if someone can come up with anything of substance though.
 
From what I remember reading, both Bohler and Carpenter use third generation PM processes while Crucible uses first (I think they were one of the first to use it as well). However comparing a steel from crucible to a steel from one of the other two it is very hard to tell a difference even in testing. Search for a comparison of S90V (crucible) vs 20CP (Carpenter) and you will see there may be a very small difference favoring 20CP in some cases and no difference seen in others, and by differences I mean a 20CP PM2 had 1 visible flat spot on the edge after testing and the S90V had two (in both cases the flat spots were about 1/2mm in length)
 
IMO the knifemakers knowledge of heat treating is AS if not MORE important than the particular steel he is using.

Just my .02 from what I've learned doing my homework...
 
michaelm466 said:
From what I remember reading, both Bohler and Carpenter use third generation PM processes while Crucible uses first (I think they were one of the first to use it as well). However comparing a steel from crucible to a steel from one of the other two it is very hard to tell a difference even in testing. Search for a comparison of S90V (crucible) vs 20CP (Carpenter) and you will see there may be a very small difference favoring 20CP in some cases and no difference seen in others, and by differences I mean a 20CP PM2 had 1 visible flat spot on the edge after testing and the S90V had two (in both cases the flat spots were about 1/2mm in length)
Click to expand...

Not exactly the most scientific of tests. The variance could have been from a million things, namely slightly difference geometry or HT, slightly differing cuts, etc. The test would be basically impossible to do "correctly". Hell, the difference could have been minor alloy composition.

I would just call them the same. Also, like has been addressed above, are the generations governed by the exact same rules? I would think not. Maybe Crucible nailed it with their first gen, and Boehler needed a few tries to get it right?
 
Hello??? Ankerson???? I hear your name being called...please.

...and I mean no disrespect to anyone here. It's just that I know of his work and videos for a very long time now, and his input would be great.
 
Sonnydaze said:
Hello??? Ankerson???? I hear your name being called...please.

...and I mean no disrespect to anyone here. It's just that I know of his work and videos for a very long time now, and his input would be great.
Click to expand...

Nobody in their right mind would take offense to Ankerson being called in. He is basically the king of steel testing. I said that S90V and 20CP were the same, but if Ankerson says they different, well, I made an error.
 
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