How To Boil the oil out of a Norton Crystolon

[maximus83]

Wanted to boil the embedded factory oil out of a Norton coarse Crystolon to use like a SiC 'water stone' for coarse grinding, profiling, and bevel setting. For me, this kind of work with the coarse stone has been easier to do with water than with oil. HeavyHanded gave tips on process. Pretty simple but thought to document here for others' benefit.

Process I did:

• Materials as below. The 2 small tongs I placed on bottom of pan to keep stone off bottom. The larger I used to lift it out after scooping oil off the surface.
• Process:
  • Fill pan to get water about 2 inches above top of stone when it's sitting on the tongs.
  • Bring to full boil.
  • Reduce heat, squirt 2 shots of Dawn into the water, simmer 15-20 minutes, then turn off and allow water to cool for a few minutes.
  • Take a metal measuring cup or similar, scoop the pooled oil off surface of water.
  • Lift stone out with large tongs and rinse.
  • Wash out pan and all the tongs.
  • Repeat the above process. For me, the first boil got probably 95% of the oil. The second boil still got a tiny bit more.

 

[David Martin]

Ok, the procedure I did: my stone was a 2X8 IB8 twin grit India. After that one I did a Norton IM313 a replacement stone for the 313 Tri-Hone.
1)I got a 2 qt. sauce pan put the stone in it and filled it w/ hot tap water until the water covered the stone. By maybe 1", then turned on the heat. This helps reduce a stress fracture by sudden change in temperature. Allowing a slower heat up. 2) I put a drop of dish soap in. As it begins to boil well
the vasoline will liquefy and come to the top. After 5-7 minutes I removed the stone with tongs and quickly wiped. 3)Then laid it on a shop towel
on a warm-hot surface like a wood stove w/ the coarse side down allowing it to cool some. As more vasoline will continue to leach out while sitting. 4) Empty the pan contents out doors and wipe as the oil has a foul odor. 5) After another 5 mins. use a glove, pick up the stone and wipe. This removes about 90% of the vasoline or grease from the stone. DM

 

[David Martin]

A reason for the preloaded stone is then it doesn't require oil. If you did then use oil it sets more readily on the surface. I have found a stone
that I wish was loaded, the ACE Hardware stone a jet black 2 grit SiC stone. Oil does not last long on the surface of this stone. When working
on it I have to use vasoline on it's surface first then oil. In order for it to hold the oil. This stone is a more porous stone and any oil will seep
through. So, there is some benefits to having a preloaded stone. This removal procedure is for those sharpeners that don't want it in their stone. DM

 

[annr]

Has norton always preloaded their stones?

If, not when did they start?

 

[maximus83]

A reason for the preloaded stone is then it doesn't require oil.
[...]
So, there is some benefits to having a preloaded stone. This removal procedure is for those sharpeners that don't want it in their stone. DM

Exactly David. I see this whole thing as optional and user preference, it's not a case of this is necessary, or that the stone somehow works 'better' without the embedded oil. What I mentioned in OP is that I've found it more convenient--for me personally--to do heavy grinding work with this stone just using water.

What I've done is move my stone collection away from oil stones for a few reasons, mostly convenience/preference. I'm going to all water stones (SiC stones for grinding, FortyTwoBlades various AlOx stones for sharpening), and diamonds.

 

[HeavyHanded]

A reason for the preloaded stone is then it doesn't require oil. If you did then use oil it sets more readily on the surface. I have found a stone
that I wish was loaded, the ACE Hardware stone a jet black 2 grit SiC stone. Oil does not last long on the surface of this stone. When working
on it I have to use vasoline on it's surface first then oil. In order for it to hold the oil. This stone is a more porous stone and any oil will seep
through. So, there is some benefits to having a preloaded stone. This removal procedure is for those sharpeners that don't want it in their stone. DM

This ^!
I normally add a few more steps to the process when boiling out my oilstones.

Once it is completely boiled dry of the factory pre-load and been used a few times I have to then go back and apply a thick coat of vaseline, heat gently, and reapply oil .

 

[David Martin]

Well, that's interesting. HH, I'm glad you've had your coffee. For my use I personally don't care for the pre-loaded stone. EXCEPT, with that One stone, I wouldn't mind. But I see it's purpose. Something I've thought of is a pre-loaded stone may help guys who don't remember to use oil. Another maybe is it may help in cleaning the stone. Which is something most users don't do. Us on here will. But other purchasers don't. DM

 

[David Martin]

annr, I started noticing it around 2000. So, it could have been in Norton's practice a few years prior. DM

 

[maximus83]

After chatting quickly with HH in PM, it's worth clarifying this point in case it confuses anybody: as noted in the OP, I did this boiling process on a single grit Crystolon coarse stone, which I use only for heavy grinding, profiling, and bevel setting of all steel types. For that specific stone and type of work, I found water is easier to work with than oil. People could potentially use this stone-boiling procedure to remove oil from other stones too, but this specific stone was the one I did.

HeavyHanded is referring to still using oil with the Crystolon combi (JB8) stone. He found he gets best results on the 'fine'/320 grit side when using oil. So, for folks using that stone and wanting to get away from oil stones, might be worth pinging HH first and considering whether to boil the oil out of that one. For me personally, I don't use my Crystolon combi/Jb8 much now, as I've gone totally water stones, I use the coarse Crystolon for grinding, and for coarse SiC sharpening, I use the SharpPebble 320/500 (ANSI) water stone.

 

[annr]

annr, I started noticing it around 2000. So, it could has been in Norton's practice a few years prior. DM

Thanks. Interesting. I own a large drawerfull of Norton stones (weight just broke the drawer!)—SiC, India, Arkansas—all sizes, grits, combos covered— and they are all probably pre-1993, most pre-1985, some ca. 1975. Maybe this explains why I hadn’t noticed this phenomenon?

I remember routinely slathering some of them (when new) with Vaseline and boiling them—sometimes more than once.

Now I’m wondering if I would like the new ones…and if I should continue recommending these norton stones expecting people to get results similar to mine…

 

[David Martin]

I think you would like these recent stones.
HH, perhaps I'm not taking you correctly.? DM

 

[HeavyHanded]

I think you would like these recent stones.
HH, perhaps I'm not taking you correctly.? DM

David, I was just commenting on how many times I've boiled oil out of stones and then reversing the process after using them that way for a few.
It works but not as well IMHO.

Yes, the newer stones hold oil a lot better before the pre-treat is boiled out. They might not be as refined as older stones, but still work very well for what they are.

 

[jc57]

I prefer to use oil with my oil stones and I am glad the Norton Crystolon and India come pre-loaded.

I have a couple of the non-pre-loaded Norton Economy stones and they take a lot of oil. I think I could fill a 5-gallon bucket with mineral oil, drop in a Norton Economy stone, and come back in the morning to find a completely empty bucket with a bone-dry Norton Economy stone in the bottom of it.

 

[David Martin]

jc, a bit of a humorous stretch but I know what your saying and agree. As my Norton economy IS that way. DM

 

[maximus83]

Going forward I'll be getting all water stones (AlOx or Sic), or diamonds. But the Crystolon coarse has been a great stone, effective at what it does. Since I already had it I was glad to find a way to 'convert' it to a waterstone and get some more life out of mine. I've profiled 3 edges with it the last 2 days since boiling out the oil, and it absorbs water noticeably better while being less messy to work with. So it was worth doing, in my case.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I prefer to use oil with my oil stones and I am glad the Norton Crystolon and India come pre-loaded.

I have a couple of the non-pre-loaded Norton Economy stones and they take a lot of oil. I think I could fill a 5-gallon bucket with mineral oil, drop in a Norton Economy stone, and come back in the morning to find a completely empty bucket with a bone-dry Norton Economy stone in the bottom of it.

I felt the same way with mine.

They do eventually slow down, in drinking it up. I forced the issue, in stashing one of my Economy stones and several other 'dry' stones from ACE & Sears in a 'vat' of laxative-grade mineral oil, about three or four 16 oz. bottles' worth of it, enough to keep them completely immersed; they live in there now, between uses. I've noticed in the last few uses, I don't have to keep pouring on the oil nearly as much. I just periodically dip a couple fingertips in the oil and drizzle it on the stone as needed; but not so much as to be a distraction anymore.

I have an 8" SiC stone from ACE, that I've held off using with oil so far. I've used it with water a couple of times, and it works OK as such. The one obvious downside of doing so, is that accumulated swarf in the stone is prone to rusting eventually, using the stone with water. I noticed the staining on the stone when looking at it yesterday. Not a big deal, mostly a cosmetic issue. But that's an obvious difference I don't otherwise see in using my other stones with mineral oil. I'm still watching to see if it's performing differently, with water alone; it may be a little slower to release grit, than if using them with oil. But I'm not sure of that yet.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

It shouldn't be a matter of it releasing grit faster or slower with a particular lubricant, but rather that the speed with which the surface grains wear is less with oil than it is with water due to its better lubricity, which reduces wear due to friction.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I believe it (oil) actually does increase the release rate. I'm not sure why this would be the case, but it sure does seem to be so.

When I use my SiC stones for longer periods of time with water they eventually glaze and need to have the surface conditioned. They also seem not to release as much mud. The effect is particularly pronounced on the more coarse stones that will literally choke with mud if used with oil.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

It shouldn't be a matter of it releasing grit faster or slower with a particular lubricant, but rather that the speed with which the surface grains wear is less with oil than it is with water due to its better lubricity, which reduces wear due to friction.

I wondered about the release rate of the grit, due to what seemed like a lack of accumulating loose grit on the surface of the stone, when I used it with water. I'm generally more aware of seeing it build up when using these with oil, and I've come to expect it. But when using it with water, I kept looking for that mud building up, but wasn't seeing much of it. That's what made me wonder if the water was making that difference.

IT COULD BE, at least as I'm perceiving it, that the grit still loosens up on the stone with water, but is tending instead to be drawn back into the pores of the stone with the water, instead of being suspended on the surface, as seems more apparent with oil. When the stone dries out after use with water, I'm seeing some accumulation of stuff in the voids on the surface, most of which is probably swarf from the blades; but, some of it may also be some of the loosened grit, for all I know.


David

 

[maximus83]

Used the Crystolon coarse yesterday to do a larger blade profile, there was so much mud forming on the surface using water I had to stop multiple times to rinse it off. I like the fast wear, release of particles, and fast grinding action I'm getting with water and SiC. We'll see how that pans out over time. Just ordered one of 42's manticore stones at 60 grit, plan to use that as a water stone as well.