Boker's claim that 440c is better than ATS-34

U

Uncle Bill

Joined
Aug 24, 1999
Messages
434
I saw something on the Boker site about this. They say their Solingen 440c is better than ATS-34. What is the knife community's consensus about 440c? I see it mentioned from time to time, but not evaluated with reference to other materials.

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Bill

"They'll say I was a musician, won't they?"
--Beethoven on his deathbed (and you thought nobody but you was insecure . . . )
 
Better how? Yes, 440C is better than ATS-34...at least as stain and rust resistance is concerned. Edge holding? I doubt it. Brittleness? Probably so.

-AR

...You'll get a "real" answer soon. I'm not an expert like the others are.

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322

- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.


 
I just wanted to second Jackyl's comment.
I had heard and read that 440C was better in the stain and rust resist aspect than ATS-34.
I had also read that properly treated, 440C could compete with ATS-34 in overall toughness.
I do look forward to more informed answers/opinions though.

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The greatest thought that has ever entered my mind is that one day I will have to stand before a Holy God and give an account of my life.
*Daniel Webster

Rev 20:12

 
Ya, 440C is supposed to be more stain resistant, tougher on paper, and it does seem to take a fine edge a little easier than ATS-34, but that's a little subjective.

Corduroy has said on a couple of occasions that he can't tell the difference between them in use.

I only have one ordinary 440C knife, a small Barry Dawson fixed blade. Barry does excellent heat treatment on the stuff, right down to a differential temper. It doesn't hold an edge as well as ATS in my opinion, but it is still a great knife, one of my favs.

I would not hesitate to by a 440C blade in a design that I admired if the maker seemed to be an expert on heat treating it. Oh, and as long as the price was reasonable.

[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 15 October 1999).]
 
Yeah, I'm willing to believe Boker on this one, or rather, to say they're not totally blowing smoke. I've used some drop-forged knives in Solingen 440C that were easily the equal of anything I've seen in ATS-34. I've also made knives in both (treated by TKS) and I doubt that I could tell them apart in use. Admittedly I think the ATS-34 was treated a bit on the soft side, but I like that.

I gather that 440C should resist rust marginally better than ATS-34. I haven't ever tested this in an objective fashion. I use ATS-34 because I like its grinding properties much better.

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-Corduroy
"Why else would a bear want a pocket?"

Little Bear Knives
Drew Gleason:
adg@student.umass.edu
 
440C was the hip, fancy steel before ATS-34 got the huge following that it now has. It seems that everyone agrees that 440C is more stain resistent, but I've heard differing opinions of toughness. I'll take a gander at the Boker site to see what they say about it.
 
Hmm... haven't seen George Tichbourne around much recently, but I believe he uses 440C almost exclusively, w/very good results. George, if you're out there, maybe you can chime in w/your thoughts and experience...?

Glen

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“The piano has been drinking” -Tom Waits

 
There seems to be a big thing about different steels but I do sometimes wonder if much of this is a marketing tool. I am not pulling down ATS-34 but there is a lot more to a knife's performance than just the steel.
Surely the an important issue is the correct design and edge geometry along with the correct heat treatment. I am no expert, but I remember Wayne Goddard making this point a few years back regarding the Cold Steel Trailmaster.
If Boker's knives are outperforming other companies products, it maybe because they are better made and designed. You could only really compare a steels performance if both knives were of identical design, with the correct heat treatment and the same edge geometry.
 
I LIKE 440C despite what Boker says.
It has proven to me to be far more rust/stain resistant than ATS-34.
I happen to own a couple of Klotzlis and a Bud Nealy Specialist. I use one of the Klotzlis all the time: kitchen, camping and fishing and regularly neglect it. It has never stained or rusted. Likewise for the Boker/Nealy as it remains clipped on the outside fairing pocket of my motorcycle.
I also carry a VBM-UDT daily and it is also 440C bead blast. It has never stained or rusted, including those sweaty days of our summers.
I can get a better edge on the VBM than the Klotzli, but both are shaving sharp. Never had the occasion to use the Specialist for anything yet.
I seek out and purchase pocket-sized folders made of 440C, and often wish more of the popular ATS-34 knives also came in it too.
Bill
 
There was a rather nasty letter concerning ATS 34 in the June 1999 Blade. This was followed by a less-than-enthusiastic letter about ATS 34 in August 1999 issue. A third letter was published in the Nov. issue of Blade that supported ATS 34.

Anyone follow these?

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Hoodoo

Cogita tute
 
Hoo Doo,

Go back to last year's general forum and do a search on ATS34. Thaddeus posted a thread and wrote his critical letter to Blade which started the back and forth you read.

sing

AKTI #A000356
 
I read the letters in Blade. Pretty interesting stuff. That first letter was somewhat shocking; man, was that guy pissed! I didn't realize that there was a corresponding thread here on BF; I'll read it soon.

Basically, I agree with the editor's response, which was that heat treat and hardness have a lot to do with brittleness. I think the first letter made a good point though, that you shouldn't accept materials on blind faith and you should always be critical. I also agree that the Blade article on ATS-34 that preceeded the letters was somewhat fluffy and deserved to be critisized.
 
Just back from my Saturday shopping trip. No new knife purchases.
frown.gif
I did buy some interesting oil called Boeshield T-9. Gonna compare it to my Tuf-Glide. It was $7 for 4 oz in a spray can. Anyway, I picked up the latest issue of Blade (I gotta send in my 3 year subscription and get a deal on an Onion) and lo and behold, another letter on ATS-34. This one was clearly pro ATS-34.

More fun...wonder how long this will go back and forth?




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Hoodoo

Cogita tute
 
I don't have much time to get involved with the endless arguements as to which steel is the best, knife show coming up next sunday Oct 24 at the Days Inn 6257 Airport Rd Mississauga Ontario.

I use 440C because it does all that I ask it to do and then some. There are better steels on the market, some at a very high price. Because I make knives to be used, not displayed in a case I use the most cost effective steel on the market that will do the job. In my case that is 440C. I will use other materials at customer request.

Got to go now, knives to finish and sheaths to sew.

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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com

 
I have two Boker Specialsts and I am very happy with both of them.

Their stain resistance is much better then of any other knife I have.

But - I cannot get them as sharp as my Kershaw Ti ATS 34 (but then Ti ATS 34 is much sharper than any other ATS-34 knife I own).

David
 
And, then, of course there is Cold Steel's assessment that AUS8A is better than ATS34 !
smile.gif



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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343
I think :therefore, I am......I think


 
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