Bolsters - habaki or traditional

Joined
Dec 4, 2005
Messages
851
Well, here's another 'educate the newb' question. Other than the looks, what's the inherrant difference between the traditional vs habaki bolster? Just by looking, I can't see one having a distinct advantage over the other besides personal preference. From munks' post here, HI is going back to using the traditional bolster. Of the three khuks I now own, two have the traditional and one has the habaki; I have to say I don't have a burning preference either way. So would someone please enlighten me? Thanks.

Mark
 
Habaki bolster helps to lock the blade into the scabbard. Personally I prefer the traditional bolster for aesthetic reasons... that and the brass/steel on the bolster will get tarnished by the scabbard's leather.
 
There was a point of view which said the habaki bolster was more prone to blade failure, but everyone pretty much agrees that never happened in HI. Then there was a point of view called, 'you could hide the seam' which never made sense to me personally because the seam between the blade proper and the tang- or just that area of metal between- was obscured by the traditional bolster as well. So, thoughts that the habaki was for knife makers with something to hide, never seemed logical to me. I suppose if we were dealing with makers with things to hide that discussion might go farther, but HI blades have been around a long time and taken a hell of a lot of abuse.

There is a view that the habaki bolster made it somehow easier for the sheath maker to do a sloppier job. I honestly don't what the answer to that is. I've looked over my khuks with different bolsters and can't see why a sheath made for each type would not work, though if sheath makers kept making sheaths intended for the traditional and the habaki were used ....but ....see- I'm speculating. Our own highly regarded Norm believes the Habaki bolsterd HI khuks did not fit as well as the traditional.

Ah hemm. HI has never actually stopped making 'traditional bolster', but it was less prevalent for a number of years. Due to popular demand, the vast majority of which was from a cosmetic perspective- folks feeling khuks should not have the habaki, HI heard us and made the return.

I'm not a knife guy and here I am talking about all these bolsters. How did I get here anyway? Does anyone shoot guns in this forum?

munk
 
Lot's of gunnies in this forum.
I'm not really a knife guy- but I sure like khuks.



munk
 
Not sure what the difference was, but the locking habaki thing doesn't seem valid from my (admittedly limited) experience - my traditional bolster sheaths seem to fit much better than my habaki bolster sheaths. Though, that may be because the traditional bolster was on a somewhat less common blade to which more attention was paid during scabbarding in some cases (purely conjecture)... But even on the BAS I just got, the sheath/scabbard fits much better on the standard bolster than the habaki bolster.
 
Does anyone have a picture comparison showing the difference between the two? I really don't know which is which or why it would make a difference.
 
Bandit, here is an example of both bolsters from yesterday's DOTD. The top pic shows the traditional bolster. The 15" Pen Knife has the habaki. Hope this helps out.
1-30-06-2.JPG

1-30-06-5.JPG


Jake
 
Thanks for the input, guys. Oddly enough, my villager BAS with a habaki bolster fits into its sheath a tad more snugly than the WWII (with the traditional bolster) that I just got yesterday. The fit is fine, the BAS is just a bit more snug. If I was ever in a situation that I needed a quick draw, I'd feel a little more comfortable with the WWII. If I was in a situation where I might be worrying about my khuk jiggling loose and falling, I'd feel more comfortable with the BAS. For day-to-day work, wich ever felt more comfortable that day.
 
I have both bolster types.:thumbup: I like both bolster types, and I'm glad I have them both. I don't think my hibaki bolsters hide flaws.:rolleyes: I don't think they are any easier or harder to make. I don't think it affects performance or handling. I don't think they make the scabbard any different either way. From what I understand the scabbard is carved to fit each specific khuk. Some fit better than others, granted, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. You've got the wood in front of you, you trace the knife, remove wood till you get close, then fit the blade and ajust. What in the process changes? Does anyone think HI is recycling old badly carved scabbards by doing the hibaki bolster? I don't think so. Just storing the mistakes would be labor intensive and take up valuable space. I am speculating a lot here, but these are my opinions. HI runs a tight ship and none of us feel that they are trying to sell us a cheap, poorly made product. I believe forumites requested hibaki bolsters, then requested traditional again. Nuff said.:)
 
I have both types of HI bolsters and prefer the traditional for aesthetic reasons alone.:)
 
I hate the *so-called* habaki bolsters. They aren't habaki as the don't wrap all the way around the blade the way a real habaki does, just on opposite sides of the flat part of the tang.
The habaki bolsters lead to even worse cho creep than the traditional bolsters which is another reason I don't like them.
The don't hide flaws per se but they can cover a few sins as they are easier to fit to the blade IMO.
The traditional bolsters let the wood cover a little more of the tang and again IMO are just a tad stronger for that reason, doesn't mean the habakis are inherently weak it's just that there is tang that could've been covered with wood that isn't.

What actually started the dayumed things is when Jim March sent an old Japanese Katana to Uncle Bill that was then shipped over to Nepal.
The kamis thought the habaki would help the scabbards fit better and they did at first.
Then the dayumed sarkis started getting lazy and the fit of the scabbards went downhill from there.
Occasionally I'd get one that fit acceptably but usually the habakis would shake loose quicker than the old standard bolsters.
The scabbards are difficult to get to fit properly anyway and with the differences in climate change from Nepal to Reno Nevada to wherever the khukuri is going it's a wonder that we don't have more trouble with properly fitting scabbards.

If you read way back and run across some of Pala's experiences when he was with the Ghorkas you will see that even Pala had trouble keeping the scabbard fitting properly. He would wedge it when tight and wrap it when it got loose and polished it with Kiwi Polish to keep it from rotting away in the wet weather.
The scabbards misfit is just something that goes along with having a khukuri(s). ;)
I'm really happy to see the cho creep being pretty much eradicated and the return of the traditional bolster.
Once again the HI Khukuris have the beautiful appearance of the ones made from the beginning.:thumbup: :D :cool:

And anyone with the *so-called* habaki bolsters don't have to worry, they'll last hundreds of years just like the others. I haven't broken any of mine yet, just don't care for their looks.:barf:
 
Yvsa said:
I hate the *so-called* habaki bolsters. They aren't habaki as the don't wrap all the way around the blade the way a real habaki does, just on opposite sides of the flat part of the tang.
The habaki bolsters lead to even worse cho creep than the traditional bolsters which is another reason I don't like them.
The don't hide flaws per se but they can cover a few sins as they are easier to fit to the blade IMO.
The traditional bolsters let the wood cover a little more of the tang and again IMO are just a tad stronger for that reason, doesn't mean the habakis are inherently weak it's just that there is tang that could've been covered with wood that isn't.

What actually started the dayumed things is when Jim March sent an old Japanese Katana to Uncle Bill that was then shipped over to Nepal.
The kamis thought the habaki would help the scabbards fit better and they did at first.
Then the dayumed sarkis started getting lazy and the fit of the scabbards went downhill from there.
Occasionally I'd get one that fit acceptably but usually the habakis would shake loose quicker than the old standard bolsters.
The scabbards are difficult to get to fit properly anyway and with the differences in climate change from Nepal to Reno Nevada to wherever the khukuri is going it's a wonder that we don't have more trouble with properly fitting scabbards.

If you read way back and run across some of Pala's experiences when he was with the Ghorkas you will see that even Pala had trouble keeping the scabbard fitting properly. He would wedge it when tight and wrap it when it got loose and polished it with Kiwi Polish to keep it from rotting away in the wet weather.
The scabbards misfit is just something that goes along with having a khukuri(s). ;)
I'm really happy to see the cho creep being pretty much eradicated and the return of the traditional bolster.
Once again the HI Khukuris have the beautiful appearance of the ones made from the beginning.:thumbup: :D :cool:

And anyone with the *so-called* habaki bolsters don't have to worry, they'll last hundreds of years just like the others. I haven't broken any of mine yet, just don't care for their looks.:barf:

Well when sharpenning my khuk, I got a 1/4 inch cut from the cho, :o, my bad. But I do see the reason of having a habaki (other than having a better fit in the scabbard) and a cho. Keeps one from bleeding. :o
 
Yvsa said:
I hate the *so-called* habaki bolsters. They aren't habaki as the don't wrap all the way around the blade the way a real habaki does, just on opposite sides of the flat part of the tang.
The habaki bolsters lead to even worse cho creep than the traditional bolsters which is another reason I don't like them.
The don't hide flaws per se but they can cover a few sins as they are easier to fit to the blade IMO.
The traditional bolsters let the wood cover a little more of the tang and again IMO are just a tad stronger for that reason, doesn't mean the habakis are inherently weak it's just that there is tang that could've been covered with wood that isn't.

What actually started the dayumed things is when Jim March sent an old Japanese Katana to Uncle Bill that was then shipped over to Nepal.
The kamis thought the habaki would help the scabbards fit better and they did at first.
Then the dayumed sarkis started getting lazy and the fit of the scabbards went downhill from there.
Occasionally I'd get one that fit acceptably but usually the habakis would shake loose quicker than the old standard bolsters.
The scabbards are difficult to get to fit properly anyway and with the differences in climate change from Nepal to Reno Nevada to wherever the khukuri is going it's a wonder that we don't have more trouble with properly fitting scabbards.

If you read way back and run across some of Pala's experiences when he was with the Ghorkas you will see that even Pala had trouble keeping the scabbard fitting properly. He would wedge it when tight and wrap it when it got loose and polished it with Kiwi Polish to keep it from rotting away in the wet weather.
The scabbards misfit is just something that goes along with having a khukuri(s). ;)
I'm really happy to see the cho creep being pretty much eradicated and the return of the traditional bolster.
Once again the HI Khukuris have the beautiful appearance of the ones made from the beginning.:thumbup: :D :cool:

And anyone with the *so-called* habaki bolsters don't have to worry, they'll last hundreds of years just like the others. I haven't broken any of mine yet, just don't care for their looks.:barf:

Good analysis Yvsa! As I have said before, IMO some knives just seem to go better with one kind of bolster or another. The bottom line is I have a ton of strong-as-hell HI knives with habaki bolsters that will certainly outlive me. I have never seen a strength problem with them.

As Munk mentioned, in my experience anyway, the Sarkis seem to fit the scabbards to the blades a bit better when they have to snug up to the start of the bolster, and they pass my test better of not falling out of the scabbard easily when inverted. But, I have two special order BGRS's from Bura that I got last year (and kick myself for not asking for std. bolsters as that does look a bit better with those particular models), and for the only time I have seen it the Sarki fit both blades very tightly up to the start of the habaki bolsters. The knife blades fit the scabbard perfectly, but the entire bolster is out of the scabbard, giving somewhat of an odd appearance, as usually the Sarki will try to make the scabbard throat just wide enough to accomodate the habaki brass that is on the blade.

But, this works well for me as it is, because you can tell the Sarki really took his time with these scabbards, and meticulously fit the blades just-so, so they are secure and protected, without trying to accomplish the more difficult task of attempting to tweak the scabbard to fit _over_ the bolster. Even if the Sarki is successful in doing that, the fit is less secure.

And that is the distinction that needs to be made, which leads to the key question: What does that kind of fit accomplish? It fits the scabbard to the thick blade, which is supported on the throat of the scabbard for its entire depth of 1/2" to 3/4" or so, rather than just the little bit of (tapered!) brass bolster that happens to be bearing on the inside of the throat. On a blade fit in that manner, as soon as the bit of bolster fit to the throat is dislodged, so is the entire knife. Consequently scabbards fit to the blade, rather than the bolster, are much safer as the knife is more secure. Habaki or not, I have never had my hand cut on a knife whose scabbard was fit to the blade, while unfortunately I cannot say the opposite is true.

On some knives, especially bigger ones, the habaki or partial habaki bolsters look very good esthetically, while on others they don't look as nice. I can't imagine Yangdu's Katunje with one, or Uncle Bill's Memorial Salyan, but on my Movie Models and big Tin Chirras it doesn't look bad at all. Evolution is good. I may have spent more money over time, but I have ridden the HI wave throughout these changes and it's all good... :thumbup:

Norm
 
Steely_Gunz said:
Bandit, here is an example of both bolsters from yesterday's DOTD. The top pic shows the traditional bolster. The 15" Pen Knife has the habaki. Hope this helps out.

Jake


Sweet, thanks! A picture tells a thousand words... so I guess two means two thousand words. So it seams my Sirupati has the habaki. But since mine will be carried it, I think I might prefer it for the more snug fit into the sheath. But both do look nice. I don't have any strong opinions of either of them though.
 
Bandit5 said:
Sweet, thanks! A picture tells a thousand words... so I guess two means two thousand words. So it seams my Sirupati has the habaki. But since mine will be carried it, I think I might prefer it for the more snug fit into the sheath. But both do look nice. I don't have any strong opinions of either of them though.

Well dayum man, go out and hack up something with those beauties. You gotta have an opinion on them. Chop Chop Chop Chop:rolleyes:

Get to it.;)
 
Astrodada said:
Well when sharpenning my khuk, I got a 1/4 inch cut from the cho, :o, my bad. But I do see the reason of having a habaki (other than having a better fit in the scabbard) and a cho. Keeps one from bleeding. :o

Astro one of the probably most used knifes ever doesn't have a guard and the edge runs right to the handle.
I'm speaking of the true Skandi Puukko of course. The idea is to watch yourself and know where the sharp ends and begins.:rolleyes: :D ;)

Actually I've found that my khukuri's without the habaki fit the scabbards better than the habaki khuks I have. But there are advantages to each I guess, I just don't see the advantage of a habaki bolster except on Japanese style blades and then they are *true habakis* that slide over and around the whole blade and *not* just the tang on two sides.
My understanding is that they are made that way to keep the polished blades away from the wood so there will not be any wear placed on the blades, ever.
 
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