Bone 80T

N

nmbfish

Joined
Jan 14, 2006
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It is my understanding that the first Old Timer 80T's had bone handles that looked a lot like the saw cut Delrin but without the saw marks. Is that true,and if so, does anyone know approximately what year the switch to Delrin was made?
 
DuPont’s advent of Delrin came about from their post-WWII search for wider applications of their popular nylon. When Department director Frank McGrew and their chemists in the Polychemical department searching for a plastic replacement for metals first came across the formaldehyde derivative which we now know as “Delrin”, they named it “synthetic stone”. This was circa 1952. The name “Delrin” was trademarked in 1953. It took another four years of development to refine the process for production and in 1956 they were granted the patent for Delrin. Another four years and twenty million dollars was invested in a facility to manufacture Delrin, and in 1960 the plant in Parkersburg, West Virginia opened and began large scale production with a twenty million pound annual capacity.

So Delrin came into use some time during 1960, though other polymers had been used for quite a few years and sample lots of Delrin may have been made available by DuPont earlier. It is my understanding that the original bone Old Timers date from 1958, 1959 and early 1960.
 
Good info. This raises further questions regarding Meerschaum bone and Delrin Scales on the early 8OT's.I have a number of the early 8OT's in those early 60? hinged box 'Old Timer' Boxes with bling. Is Meerschaum bone regarded as a synthetic material as distinct from Bone Stag handles of the 2OT ancestors such as C2533 3/4 SQ from the 30's.
The 2OT's are described as"smooth Meerschaum Bone" which I regard as bone and not delrin and they do not look synthetic...but are they? To put it rather crudely the cracks and imperfections you see in 2OT's are bone type cracks rather than Delrin pin type cracks
The original flyers for the early 8OT's describe them as 'Meerschaum Bone' handles.My 8OT's all look like Delrin although there are some color differences.The main difference I see with the early 8OT's is the distinctive main blade grind as distinct from later 8OT's which is the way I have always differentiated them..<The swedge or bevel on the back of the blade is longer than other contemporary 8OT blades>.This longer swedge can be seen in the early flyers.
Can anyone post a photo of the early "bone" 8OT together with the Delrin 8OT of that era to show if there is a difference in scales. I guess I'm really asking is the "bone" 8OT supposed to be a smooth Meerschaum bone similar to the 2OT of that year or is it a sawn "bone" similar to the contemporary Delrin 8OT. Mine are all sawn pattern in either case.
This question of "Meerschaum bone" V bone has come up in the past and it might be a good time to clarify once and for all......Hoo Roo
 
I think we need to see a picture of a live Meerschaum.
I thik they came from Ireland and were pets of the leprechauns.
 
G'Day Larry, My late Dad always smoked a Meerschaum pipe and I dont believe it was made out of Delrin......come on Larry show me your swedge and I'll show you mine mate...........
 
Some of the material I have says the 2 and 8OT from 1960 were bone. Not using the word meerscham until later. As we know Meerscham was a clay like material much to brittle for a knife handle. Swedge? How about 2 of em.

SW-60-1160A.jpg


SW-60-2%268OT.jpg
 
Thanks, Your swedge is bigger than mine.!.....anyways..mummy says size doesn't count......2 longer swedges is being thrice blessed!
Are we in agreeance then that no 2OT or 3OT has Meerschaum Bone scales and they all have genuine bone....I now have 6 to prove my point!
Larry, Are you sure the above flyer is not just referring to the 2OT with genuine bone? My point is that all 8OT's may have had that new fangled Dupont product ..."sawn Delrin" scales and Schrade referred to them as Meerschaum Bone to be marketing savvy. Can anyone produce a photo of a 8OT in genuine bone from that era, not being stag? None of my 8OT's have anything similar to the 2OT scale and I believe they are from the same period. Aussies are an argumentative little lot aren't we?? Hoo Roo
 
Larry, here are a couple of close-up comparisons. If you have a loupe or a decent magnifying glass you can see this as well. The first shot is the back of a 2OT to expose the side of the scales, the second is a peachseed jigged Schrade from approximately the same era, maybe a bit earlier (sorry about the fuzz). in both handles you can see dark lines and spots, or capilaries, that the delrin scales don't have. Delrin is pretty much solid throughout. The bone is also more opaque, you can actually see a bit of depth in it. I've included a Walden 108OT (delrin of course) next to the 2OT for comparison. I've seen a well worn bone 8OT a while back. It was pocket worn to the point that the bone was practically at it's natural color, there was no mistaking it. It's the only one I've seen that I can say for sure was authentic. I don't recall the shield on it, but I have noticed that the shields in the flyers depicting the bone 8OT's is more of a rice shaped shield rather than the stumpy oval on the later versions.
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Eric
 
I think its unfolding for us with no pun intended. The clues would appear to be the shape of the shield and the extended swedge along the top of the main blade on 8OT.I notice in 1964 flyer even the 25OT Folding Hunter had "Meerschaum bone" scales and its ordinary garden variety Delrin.
I'm going to go through all my older 8OT's with the longer swedge from the period and see if I can see difference with shape of shield which may yield us a genuine bone 8OT I can photograph.We appear to know with certainty now ALL 2OT's and 3OT are genuine bone and not meerschaum bone aka Delrin.
I suspect Codger already knows the answer and is sitting on the sidelines in much merriment!!! Hoo Roo
 
I found one of my very early 8OT's with whitish dark scales somewhat different to the other Delrin but still had same shield as the others plus the extended along the top swedge.
Thawk if that is 1961 flyer then if any 8OTwere made with genuine bone then it was for an extremely short period before switching to Delrin "Meerschaum Bone" scales.

""Until I sees it I no believes it!!"
 
The 50-OT Ive seen looks to be bone.
THe liners were also milled.
 
Larry303 said:
I found one of my very early 8OT's with whitish dark scales somewhat different to the other Delrin but still had same shield as the others plus the extended along the top swedge.
Thawk if that is 1961 flyer then if any 8OTwere made with genuine bone then it was for an extremely short period before switching to Delrin "Meerschaum Bone" scales.

""Until I sees it I no believes it!!"
Click to expand...

I've never seen an old 8OT in bone, or a bone 58OT or 50OT. I've never seen a 50OT period, not even for sale. I have 4 - 58OT, and 2 - 8OT Waldens, but they are all Meerschaum, none with milled liners either. This flyer would indicate maybe the 8OT and 2OT were both bone at that time:

http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/FLYERS/SW-TO-1973/pages/SW-60-1160A.htm

I hope to come across either one some day. I'd love to find a 50 OT too.
 
I wonder why a "bone" 8OT was not displayed in Sargents 2nd edition if they existed when the 2OT and 3OT of the same period were. I believe these were all arranged and supplied for photos by Mr Herman Williams at the time.
Is Mr. Williams still reading our posts and ready to join in again as it would be an honour to hear his input once again.
Mr. 'Camper 17' are you there please? Hoo Roo
 
from the Langston corner.. Here is a 8OT smooth bone. Note the nail nick functioned as a wooden match striker.
2OT-3.JPG
 
Very Cool!! I figured LT had one squirreled away somewhere! So much for the "different shaped shield" observation:o:D

Eric
 
Cant really see the longer swedge in that photo........still feel I need a second opinion.!!..just like when my Doctor was checking my Haemorroids and I asked for a second opinion so he put another finger in....ouch!........
I have since seen another photo from another angle of it on AAPK and it definately has the very long swedge and you can see it is most unlike Delrin.... so now I sees it I believes it.....and now I want one....wonder if he would take 5, 2OT's for it??
The other knife featured in that photo I believe to be Schrade Cut Co 2203 with ebony handle and I just received privately a Schrade Cut Co 2203 3/4 which has a clip blade and Bone Stag handle and otherwise identical. It is the ancestor <from 30's?> to the 2OT with the same Washington bolsters both 3 1/2"and has 'Schrade' inscribed where the 2OT has Old Timer on bottom nickel silver bolster. I will put a photo up with it and the 3OT and the 2OT's for comparison. Hoo Roo
 
Oh, is there no end to this insanity of more knives i must have,can someone give me the name of a good shrink.Oh never mind i just got a good deal on a blue 194OT,happy hunting..
 
Larry303 said:
Cant really see the longer swedge in that photo........still feel I need a second opinion.!!..
I have since seen another photo from another angle of it on AAPK and it definately has the very long swedge and you can see it is most unlike Delrin.... so now I sees it I believes it.....and now I want one....wonder if he would take 5, 2OT's for it??
The other knife featured in that photo I believe to be Schrade Cut Co 2203 with ebony handle and I just received privately a Schrade Cut Co 2203 3/4 which has a clip blade and Bone Stag handle and otherwise identical. It is the ancestor <from 30's?> to the 2OT with the same Washington bolsters both 3 1/2"and has 'Schrade' inscribed where the 2OT has Old Timer on bottom nickel silver bolster. I will put a photo up with it and the 3OT and the 2OT's for comparison. Hoo Roo
Click to expand...

I've enjoyed this post so I'll keep it alive today. I guess what I've gained is that there is a bone 8OT to find, and some bone Ulster 50 and maybe a 58 with milled liners!!! And we believe now that Meerschaum bone is "Early Delrin"... a marketing term Ulster used? Not sure about that. All good stuff.

I took some pictures of 8OT swedges this morning, and they are hard to capture, so group shots ensured a shadow would fall good for at least a few.

First a view from the top, showing the grind. Three 8OT's and an 882Y. Grinds are all different per knife, making me think swedges were hand finished?
swedge_8OT_top.jpg


A group shot from the same family, showing at least some swedge shadowing. They all have one, but hard to capture each ones angle. Larry303, are these like your reference to a long swedge?
80series_Swedge1.jpg


The 8OT's, note the match strikes, slightly different tooth patterns, and positioning. That first one has the pattern stamped on the pile side, like the Schrade Waldens.
8OT_nicks.jpg


I'm still waiting to find an 8OT in a hinged box, or that elusive bone example.
 
:thumbup:thawk Now I will have more problems w/ the puter cause the keyboard is all WET!!:D Man what a show you folks put on, them are some fine knives and BTW I really like the match striker nail nics:thumbup:. Just more "stuff" :D to hunt for!
 
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