BOSS Jack: Hit or Miss?

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DrDrifter

Joined
Jul 27, 2006
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Do you think the Busse BOSS Jack knife will be a hit or a miss?

I've been waiting for several years for a 5.5-7" "slicing" Busse which can be used as a utility and kitchen/camp food knife in INFI that I could afford. I find the BOSS Jack a design for this task and have ordered a choil-less BOSS Jack LE with G-10.

What appeals to me about the CBJ LE is the size, shape, and thickness of the blade. I have no need for a combat knife, so the drop point and straight handle are ideal for utility use and food prep.

The relatively thin .180" blade thickness on the LE, and .220 on the CG, give the knife a good slicing edge, especially the LE.

I wonder if this design will appeal to as many knife buyers as it does me. After all, unlike many Busse knives, this was not designed to be a combat knife. Does this compromise the BOSS Jack's desireability among Busse fans like yourselves?

How important are combat features to you on a Busse knife? Are they more important than features designed strictly for utility use?

In general, Busse 6-6.5" blades, like the ASH and SJ, have a strong following. I don't notice the same level of interest in the BOSS Jack here and have seen quite a few for sale already. Did Busse miss the mark with the BOSS Jack design, or has he designed another classic?
 
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Is this an end of the world day joke thread? What kind of red blooded American could not love the BJ?
 
The thing, it is designed to be a combat knife. I have a 1/8" thick version of the LE, you'd think that makes it even more of a non-combat slicer, but that isn't the case. I went and resharpened it using an 18 degree relief bevel and a 24 degree main edge bevel, and the resulting bevel area was 1/16" tall - that means I had to remove a lot of metal to get it to where the 24 degree main bevel was uniform and 1/32" tall or less.

Consider that the MUK and the CABS both are between .020 and .025" thick right behind the edge, and my CABJ (thinner then the standard CBJLE) is .040 behind the edge (1/16" back). Thats nearly twice as thick. The MUK and the CABS have an edge and tip that are closer to being what people think of as "slicers", and being 4" limits how much you can baton and chop with them, reducing how much force you can apply to the edge and spine. The BOSS Jack LE however is long enough for you to wail on it with a baton, and it's got an edge thats thick enough to take it.

The MUK and CABS are the two busse's that I know of that fall into the true slicer category, where someone who is used to other manufacturers will look at them and go "yeah, this feels pretty good". The CBJLE is more of a "reasonable" combat knife, one that still has a thick edge but isn't so thick that people who are used to doziers and bark rivers will pick it up and think "this edge is absolutely ridiculous. How am I supposed to cut anything with a .073" thick edge?" (thats 3x as thick as the cabs, found on the KZII and likely (I didn't measure it but I remember how thick it felt) the Tank Buster).

If anything it will help draw people in by being a middle ground between the true slicers and the ultra-thick beaters.
 
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Last Visible Canary said:
If anything it will help draw people in by being a middle ground between the true slicers and the ultra-thick beaters.
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Interesting post, thanks for the clarification on blade thicknesses.

Regarding your last sentence, will this knife be enough to appeal to those who may refer to Busse knives as "prybars with an edge"?

What has been the most widely accepted Busse design among those who are not already, or never will be, Busse fanatics?
 
Also, "combat" is just hard utility. Even for hard utility a lot of busse's are overbuilt, like the proto BOSS Jacks vs. the cg BOSS Jacks, where jerry removed a lot of metal moving to the cg version. The cg version is plenty 'difficult to destroy by hand' but so is the CBJLE. CABS/MUK, not so much. I'm pretty sure I could snap/break those two in a few minutes given a big rock.

I end up having more stringent requirements of what I'm willing to accept on either a combat (hard utility under fire) or a fighting (physical altercation) knife than I do for general utility. I'm carrying two version of the BOSS Jacks because they avoid the choil, I was able to get the edge in line through heavy reprofiling enough that I don't consider it a problem, It's a compact design that (in the proto) has enough weight to chop with and (in the CABJ) is thin enough with a thin enough edge to be fast and reduce drag.
 
DrDrifter said:
Interesting post, thanks for the clarification on blade thicknesses.

Regarding your last sentence, will this knife be enough to appeal those who may refer to Busse knives as "prybars with an edge"?

What has been the most widely accepted Busse design among those who are not already, or never will be, Busse fanatics?
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I don't think so. The CBJLE is a great knife that will draw people in who otherwise wouldn't have thought about buying a busse, but it still falls under the "prybar with an edge" for a lot of people.

The knife that has really drawn people in from far and wide in the knife community that have never considered busse has been the CABS. Bushcraft and edc folks who looked in for years and years finally got a thin knife with a thin edge that was under 5" long. Those who have looked in for the past 10 years got a knife that hasn't existed in the catalog in that entire time. And it really is a great knife.

I think the MUK continues that trend and will satisfy a lot of people who would have had a hard time finding a knife in the catalog to be satisfied with (thin all around), but only if it end up in a production run and becomes common. If it stays a small-online-only run then it's going to largely remain in the dark and be overshadowed by the success of the CABS.
 
I suppose I was incorrectly thinking "combat" and "fighting" knives were the same thing. What would you consider to be the practical differences in design for the two applications? What would be similar?

Thanks for the clarification.
 
The Boss Jack was a miss IMHO. I would like to see more fat choppers and wide/thick blades (my original attraction to the brand). While I think they probably sold a ton of these, if we saw a new version of the NMF/FF/CGFBM people would likely go f***ing crazy over it.

Also, I don't think that "Combat" in "Busse Combat" is meant to be taken literally. These are knife enthusiast knives, with enthusiast prices and lead times. I don't see Busse overly marketing/claiming their knives as perfect for boot-to-ground military members (a la Strider), and I think that sometimes people look too much into the names.
 
DrDrifter said:
I don't notice the same level of interest in the BOSS Jack here and have seen quite a few for sale already.
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Don't confuse the BJ proto and show offerings with these new regular offerings - the grind and thicknesses are different and some of the protos and show offerings sported a fuller. The protos/show offerings have been around for a year and yes, have been well represented on the exchange - however, I can only think of two regular offering BJs I've seen up on the exchange - one LE and one CG...

On the "combat knife" thing - I think that there is a lot of marketing there and, yes, I enjoy CHUGGING the kool-aid ;) IMHO, the BJ is MUCH more realistic for the combat arena than the larger Busses such as the NMSFNO, TG or even the flagship "Busse Combat" FSH... I have friends who are serving, and combined with all the "which Busse for a soldier" threads that pop up, it would seem that the consensus is a blade between 4" and 6" and not ridiculously heavy, meaning thinner rather than thicker. Honestly most of my friends tell me that a Gerber multitool or folder is the only knife they need and a few are not even allowed to carry large fixed blades... But I'm rambling and this is an additional discussion/debate :)
 
I check in a few times a year, but missed the CABS sale, unfortunately. I have a small LE sebenza as my EDC pocket folder, which I use in place of a small fixed blade knife.

Beyond a small folder, a medium fixed blade, and sometimes an axe/hatchet, I don't want to carry any more blades while camping/hunting; the CABS may be redundant.

The choil-less design of the BOSS Jack really appeals to me as a food prep knife. I find the region with the choil to be one of my more used areas of blade when chopping herbs/vegetables. I would hate to have a choil there and lose prime cutting area. After all, my Wusthof chef's knife has no choil and I choke up just fine on the blade for fine cutting jobs.
 
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Well, here are some pictures, one is the Boss Jack Limited Edition and the other is the older SHSJ. The Boss one is avil now straight from Busse in whatever color handle you would like with or without the choil. I guess you could wait until they take them out of production before you really start wanting one, but then you don't get exactly what you want and usually pay more...
But to answer your question, I would defiantly have to say it's a hit!
 
DrDrifter said:
I suppose I was incorrectly thinking "combat" and "fighting" knives were the same thing. What would you consider to be the practical differences in design for the two applications? What would be similar?

Thanks for the clarification.
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A combat knife has to be able to do all the things you need it to while on the ground in a combat zone and under fire, it cannot fail when you need it to work, even when your doing things your not supposed to do with a knife. It has to work, every time for hard utility chores that become life and death in the feild:
-process wood for fires
-open packages (including metal drums or whatever you need to open)
-process food when necessary
-open doors (be it through jamming it open at the lock, or breaking it down)
-open windows (by prying open or smashing out)
-punching holes through brick walls
-cutting general stuff like fabric
-digging (even where rocky)
-Be used in physical defense if necessary (this is the sub-1% of what a knife is expected to do in balistics based combat)

Brittish army knife designed for combat:
British-Army-Knife.jpg


A fighting knife has to be able to:
- Punch through armor, leather and clothing where possible
- Cut through meat quickly will little to no drag, and maintain it's edge stability on bone contact (think butcher knife, as you are butchering something)
- Reach the heart, brain or lungs (or have the operator be trained to use a shorter knife effectively and efficiently)
- Have zero drag points (no choil, no hooks to grab onto webbing, netting, clothing or wires - ever.)

U.S. Army Fairbairn sykes knife designed for fighting:
fairbain001.jpg



Nearly all of the Busse catalog falls under the Combat list. Even those titled "fighter" like the Pure Bred Fighter series. Those knives wouldn't punch through leather easily, wouldn't butcher meat very well (both because of an incredibly thick tip and edge), and have several drag points to get catch on things. They will however fulfill all of the combat requirements, except maybe digging since they aren't tall enough for it. But they'd take it if you tried - they are built for hard utility.
 
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If I were going to buy a knife for a soldier and he was actually able to carry it - I'd go with a combo of a CBJLE and a Leatherman charge with bit kit. That set will do pretty much anything you need and more in a relatively compact space. The boss jack series took the SHSJ and made it better. It's a fantastic knife in general, but for those who looked at the SHSJ as one of the best of the busse catalog for years but didn't like the handle/choil, it's making a good thing that much better. Definitely a hit, in every regard. Hopefully it will sell exceptionally well.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
If I were going to buy a knife for a soldier and he was actually able to carry it - I'd go with a combo of a CBJLE and a Leatherman charge with bit kit. That set will do pretty much anything you need and more in a relatively compact space. The boss jack series took the SHSJ and made it better. It's a fantastic knife in general, but for those who looked at the SHSJ as one of the best of the busse catalog for years but didn't like the handle/choil, it's making a good thing that much better. Definitely a hit, in every regard. Hopefully it will sell exceptionally well.
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Excellent series of posts, especially the combat vs. fighting explanation. Much appreciated, thanks.

I have a first gen. Charge XTi. It is my primary multitool and is always in my work bag, sometimes worn on my belt. For many years now I've had issues with the bit drivers. One of the two full-size drivers is too loose and doesn't hold on to the bit, and the mini-driver is so tight you need pliers to remove the bit.

Otherwise the titanium Charge is a phenomenal tool, I've bought a newer gen one with S30V and both scissors and hook blade as a gift. I don't remember the exact model. My blade is 154CM, which is fine to me.

I haven't seen a weight for either version of the BOSS Jack. Weight always being important, I'd imagine the thinner blade makes for a reasonable overall heft. Also, I wonder what the weight difference is between the canvas micarta and G-10 handles on the knife.
 
Nice pics Dan. :thumbup:

IMHO, the BJ-LE is a hit. I don't own a CGBJ so I can't comment on that one. But I do own a BJ Proto (satin, w/o fuller - from a Ganzaa) and I'm not real big on the full-convex grind on it. I think Jerry has done a wonderful job with the new edges.

However, on the whole, I like the thicker blades (.25"+) rather than the thinner ones (under .200") - but not on every model. I think the CABS and BJ-LE are about perfect how they are; I also like the .187" on the HR, but not so much on the TB.

I do hope to see a nice fat chopper soon (or fat NMSFNO or another .32" SH offering - even a .32" GW, Mean St. or BATAC) - I love thick bladed knives. :)
 
I have a CGBJ on order. Had a Proto DCBB, liked the feel and handling but I just wanted a CG w/G-10 grips. A knife in this size I really prefer a hilt heavy feel, quicker in the hand. To the OP question I say it's a keeper, therefore a HIT!!!
 
I really appreciate the "combat" vs "fighting" descriptions, in only a few hours my opinion of the BJ has changed a bit. I still want an older style fat chopper though :)
 
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