Bowie Design Thoughts

C

Craig Gottlieb

Joined
Mar 8, 1999
Messages
1,760
I got an email from one of you (see below) about getting the bowie design started and getting some input. Here's what I was sent:

Here's a start to the "Bowie Project". It's just a rough sketch, but
does it fit within your idea? I think that it is within the
capabilities of the Kamis. If the blade thickness is kept to 1/4" and
the blade length to around 8", with a spike tang , and a brass spacer
and bolster it would look and feel great. Let me know what you think.

Rick

bowie.jpg


Any other contributions? After holding all of Blackdog's bowies last week, I'm really psyched about this one. A definite "go to production" idea.

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
Looks like a good start Craig. Not perfect but a start.
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To actually be a bowie it really should have a clip point. Also I`d move the edge to the back of the cho,making it an integral guard. Then put a cho in a small ricaso above it. Now move the spine back so the blade is the same width as in your pic. Widen the grip a bit to keep every thing in sync. Better yet make the knife in the pic AND a bowie! It`s really slick it`s just stretching the diffinition of bowie a bit. I have some small sketches of bowies with a Nepal flavor I`d be happy to send em to ya if you`d like.
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Marcus
 
I like the one in the sketch. I don't care if it doesn't look like a "Bowie." It's a heavy-duty "camp knife." And I love cultural fusion!!!

Looks like a couple of enterprises are doing their level best to give South Asian blades a good name. It's about time!

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
I have been "refining" my rough sketch, and will send it in to Craig later tonight. My wife was kind enough to buy me a set of French Curves, which really helps with the drawings. Thanks for the comments guys, and lets keep the ideas flowing.

Rick
 
Craig,
I mailed a sketch of my big Bowie today - after careful reevaluation it's _only_ 19" OA.
Nice to see the always erudite Mr. Mattis joining the fun in the khukuri play area
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Berk
 
I love it the way it is in the drawing--Marcus has some good ideas, but I wouldn't want to see the overall blade shape or handle shape change. IMHO, the market is flooded with clip-point bowie type knives--I see them all the time; this style is more unique. Besides, a clip-point bowie isn't going to remind me of Asia. This knife does. I've seen this type of blade before (in photos and TV footage) among the Mujahideen of Afghanistan who fought the Soviets, and among Pakistani guerrillas--both of these countries are very close to Nepal geographically. I wouldn't be surprised if the kamis were familiar with this type of blade.

I think it should be called "The Khyber," since the blade shape is very similar to the Khyber Bowie these men carry.

[This message has been edited by X-Head (edited 02-23-2000).]
 
I was thinking "Khyber Pass" too, after looking at that drawing a couple of times. But methinks the blade, which looks designed more for cutting or chopping than for sticking, has more potential as a working knife than the traditional Khyber knife, which seems optimized for doing damage.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
I agree the knife in the pic is pretty darn cool. Making a GH Khyber knife instead of a bowie`s not a bad idea at all! In that case leave it exactly as is and tell me when they`ll be available so I can start savin money up.
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Marcus
 
Thanks for all the kind comments on my sketch guys. For those I haven't bothered by e-mail the basic blade shape I was going for is what is called a "Mediterrenian (sp) Style, which from my reading was possibly the style of the first "real bowie" as designed by Rezin Bowie
The handle is typical of the Pathan style, with a modern twist. Put them together and we end up with a possible (?) GH Khyber Bowie. I had Craig post the sketch to generate ideas, not to hog the limelight. So I am beaming with all the good vibes from the reaction of you all.

If you used a spiked tang, you could also slide in a brass spacer, more for looks then any other reason to match the brass bolster. I also think that the handle should be wood or maybe even bone, rather then horn. Comments anyone?

Rick
 
To keep the ball rolling and to make your mouth's water a little, I'm posting an image that Rick sent me last night. It's a 3-D rendering of his Khyber Bowie design thanks to Sumo, who recently joined our ranks.

Sumo, I'd really like to know what you used to do the 3-D work if you don't mind sharing the secret.

View


Blackdog

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The GH Forum Photo Galleries
 
Oh man--at first I thought I was looking at a photograph! Well, a picture is worth a thousand words, and this would get our ideas across to the kamis without any of the communication problems that arise out of language barriers.

As for the question of handle material, highly polished bone (water buffalo?) would be my preference by far, if Craig could get the kamis' assurance that they would only use bone that has been properly aged and dried. Otherwise it will be a crack and split festival.

Perhaps if Rick had based this on a Mediterranean design, we should follow his intent and drop the Khyber Pass references. (I know I started it--I'm not familiar with Mediterranean designs.) I would love to see GH offer its own version of the Khyber, but if Rick's design were based on knives from the Mediterranean, then maybe we should go with that, and save the Khyber design for a totally different project. If there's any distinction between the two designs, I think we should pursue both designs rather than convolute the two designs into one (unless of course the idea here is to incorporate the best features of both designs into one knife, and perhaps add some modern ergonomic touches as well).

What do you guys think about all this?

QUESTION FOR JAMES MATTIS:

You are obviously more familiar with blades from the Khyber Pass area than I am. Your comments really got my attention, and I wanted to ask what changes to this knife would make it more like a true Khyber Bowie, or more lethal, as you suggest? This is not meant to be a challenge of your expertise or knowledge in any way--I just want to know more about Khyber "Bowies". Thanks.


[This message has been edited by X-Head (edited 02-24-2000).]
 
Sumo,
WOW! Outstanding job on the 3-D rendering. My hat's off to you; would love to see more of your work.
X-Head,
I'm not an expert like James Mattis, but I do have a recent manufacture khyber knife (AKA Afghan knife, charas, charay, churra and salawar yatagan, according to Stone's "Glossary of Arms & Armor") which has the same blade profile, and an antique Khyber choora which is slightly different, similar to the North Indian/Persian pesh-kabz. All have a T-shaped cross section with a heavy rib along the back or spine of the blade and a narrow point, and are designed to punch through the chain mail armor commonly used in the region. Without the heavy back rib, the blade in the drawings is very similar to the orginal Rezin Bowie knife, which is illustrated in Bernard Levine's book. There's also a modern replica of the Rezin Bowie(probably made in India) which is pictured in the Dixie Gun Works catalog
 
Thanks for all the compliments guys
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Blackdog: the program I use to draw the actual 3D shape is called Rhino 3D, believe their website is at www.rhino3d.com, they've got a almost fully functional demo you can download. Great thing about it is once you figure out how to use it, its super fast to draw even complex objects (the bowie took me maybe an hour max to do completely)
The rendering is a little more difficult, had to take the drawing to school and do that in 3D studio.

Sumo
 
I'm not an expert either!!!
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But the "Khyber knives" I've seen are more pointy - less belly - than the "Bowie" shown here. Some at least are forged with a "T" cross section that reinforces the spine for ramming through rib cages and chain mail and such.

I don't recall whether they are normally full tang or stick tang.

The sheaths, as I've seen them, are very deep pouches, with just the butt end of the handle exposed.

And I would defer to any real expert on South Asian and Middle Eastern edged weapons if one steps forward here.

I like the new image. And I'd rather have a cutting knife than a sticking knife.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Blackdog,X-Head,Jim, Berkley et all,

Once more, thanks for the very nice comments. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I opened Sumo's e-mail with the 3-D rendering I was floored. Sumo is THE MAN. Can't thank him enough for the job.

As to the styling, I believe that it does follow closely to the Rezin (I think it was pronounced Reason)Bowie design, which was the look I was going for. As to what to call it,
either the GH Khyber Bowie or the GH Nepal Bowie sounds good to me. Heck, I'm having fun just designing it. With this design, I could see in the future offering it in a smaller (blade length) version too. Or maybe a fancier grade instead.

Anyway, I want to go back and look at the picture again (already cleaned up the first puddle of drool)
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Rick
 
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