Bowies,...market survey

Bailey Bradshaw

Bailey Bradshaw

Joined
Sep 13, 2001
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816
I am considering a new semi production project and wanted input from you guys.

What do you all like or dislike about semi production to high quality production bowies on the market. I.E. Cold Steel Trail master, C.S. Laredo Bowie, or any others like the Camillus OVB Fisk pieces.

Let me know if you feel they are a good value, materials, how they perform, fit and finish and so on.

My project is intended to provide a large Bowie similar to my cutting competition knife. It is in the "light bulb over the head phase", and I wanted to get a feel for what you guys would look for in terms of price range and overall package.

Be general or specific, but don't hold back. The more input I can get the better I can tailor my product.

Thanks
 
Hmmm, an intriguing idea BB. I think Camillus nailed it with their OVB bowies, though they should have let Kenny Rowe do their sheaths. (hint hint) The CS trailmaster is OK, but most will agree that their handles and sheaths suck royally. Make sure a good carbon steel is used, and a flat grind with convexed edge seems to be a winning combo. Hope this helps.
 
What Mongo said, since he hit all the hgh points for me. I would add, though, that an eight or nine inch blade would be ideal. Or at least I think so.

James
 
about 8 inch blade, any decent stainless steel with SATIN (I am really a big fan on satin) finish, full tang slabs handle. Would buy it for $300 give or take.
 
Something along the look of the Bill Bagwell Hell's Belle with at-least an 11 inch blade, but make the hand-guard just alittle shorter and straight...That would be good. As far as the steel goes, I like stainless, such as 154CM or 440C.
 
Mongo said:
Hmmm, an intriguing idea BB. I think Camillus nailed it with their OVB bowies, though they should have let Kenny Rowe do their sheaths. (hint hint) The CS trailmaster is OK, but most will agree that their handles and sheaths suck royally. Make sure a good carbon steel is used, and a flat grind with convexed edge seems to be a winning combo. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

uhm Mongo like bowies :D.

(I could not agree more, other than to add consider making a sub-hilt model also.)
 
I'd like a good carbon steel, apple-seed grind (ideally - if not, flat grind), flush guards (not the oval type - the two-branch type. I hope I'm clear), with enough room ahead of the guard to put a finger. I'd like a tong-hole and hidden tang construction. I dislike the Hell's Belle profile - I like wider blades. I would want a version with a nice canvas micarta handle. I liked the Fisk OVB, but I thought the Maple they used was atrocious - basically yellow... Desert ironwood is nice, but I would want to see the actualy handle of the knife before buying it, as it's really hit-or-miss for DI.
 
I'll just echo what Mongo said. Also I feel that offering a small variety of handle materials (maybe wood, G10 and micarta just off the top of my head) would be a good idea as well.
 
7 or 8" for a BOWIE? Really? I always considered a BOWIE to need a 9' minimum. And 10 starts gettin good.

:confused:
 
I for one would love to see a longer blade befitting a "real Bowie". There's plenty of 8"-10" blades on the market already, but precious few with blades in the 13"-16" range. On a semi-production basis, I'm sure you could do justice to such a large blade so it wasn't too heavy, unlike the kukris popular here.
 
I agree with Mongo, if you can follow in the foot steps of Camillus's excellent example, you should be Ok.

Of the knives you listed, here are my likes and dislikes:

Ontario Hell's Belle:

Likes: Nice grind, very lively feel, nice sheath design.

Dislikes: Cheaply finished handle. Had one for awhile, looked like they milled out a piece of paccawood, then added a few thumb tacks I bought it on the cheap, but if I paid near retail, I'dve been mightly annoyed.

Handle shape- My hand doesn't like the narrow coffin shape. I like a handle with some drop, and rounded surfaces.

Blade is too narrow, I get what Bill was getting at with the shape, but I like a wider blade.

Guard- Main stay of Bill's design, I respect that, but stay away from big horsey guards.



Cold Steel Trail Master(Comments based on Stag version I recently handled):

Likes: Nice stag, design nicely proportioned in terms of size, nice grind, nice extra touch by dding a butt-cap.

Dislikes:

Transition from guard to ricasso/blade- very squarish, gave off that "this was done by machine" look/feel.

Guard- nice size, but ugly look, needs more style.

Blade- needs more more belly.


Cam. Fisk:

Like: My hand would get tired writing down all I like about it.

Dislikes(extras I'ved liked): Needed more handle options. Would've like a thin butt plate on the handle.

____________________________

What I'd like to see in your Bowie:

Blade- 9 inch range, clipped or straight back profile, with thinned, but not sharpened false edge. Should be somewhat on the wide side.

Grind- Flat.

Guard- Steel or nickel silver, not overly large.

Handle- The Fisk had an excellent shape to it. A thin butt cap/plate would be nice. Stag would be great, but I know it's probably a pipe dream. A dark wood(perhaps Ebony) would be great. Micarta might work if properly done.

Steel- Perhaps 440c, Mirror polished. Carbon with satin. If one or the other, go satin/carbon.

Sheath- Nice leather, stud and frog style.

Price: $3-500 retail.
 
Quick question, Bailey. Where can one get a look at your cutting competition knife that you mentioned?

I love big bowies, but I don't know how popular a 13"-16" one would be. My thoughts are that something in the 10"-11" range would do better.

Looking at the price of the big, high quality factory bowies, I would think that somewherere around the $450.00-$500.00 range would be about right for something semi-production. If you can do it for less, great.

My personal preference would be for a hidden tang, claro walnut handle (ironwood would be nice, but a bit pricey), 5160 and straight fighter guard, or maybe a slight S.
 
Oh, as to fittings, please no brass and no nickel silver. Stainless is nice, and I personally like bronze, which patinates better than brass.
 
Yeah, I'd like to see the cutting comp knife.

As far as the semi-production bowie goes, you gotta go with carbon steel (or even 3V if you could keep the cost down. 3V would be EXCELLENT). I'd like a blade around 9-10" long and an overall length of 13-14" or so. Hidden tang construction with contoured micarta handles, stainless fittings, and a flush guard like Joss described. And seal the deal with YOUR stamp on the blade. I think if people see that, they'll be more confident in what they're buying. If you can do something like that for $500 or less, I'd definitely pick one up.
 
I would like to see something a little more rustic. A Bowie with some modern attributes but still simple in design. Taking a cue from the BK&T line and the RTAK from Ontario, I'd like to see a rakish camp type piece. Traditional profile with full tang, sharp swedge, 10" blade length or more with at least 1/4" thickness. One of the modern synthetics for the handle material. An overall Bowie look, but priced like the BK&T stuff.

On the fancier side, I'd like to see a modern stainless Iron Mistress profile with a full tang.


Ten
 
Thanks so much for the input. Most of what has been said echos my sentiments ont he models mentioned. The Camillus/Fisk colaborations are the closest to "right" on the market IMHO. Still, there are some problems with them that I will adress on my pieces. Primarily the guard fit.

I also appreciate the inputs as to steels and size. I had planed on using a good carbon steel and puting extra atention into heat treating them. I will do the heat treating, and feel it is the only option in this mucho importanto step. Also, the blade finish I envision is similar to the Fisk OVB, or possibly a finely ground finish like the Case/Bose folders have.

As for the size and design, that is already set. What I want to produce it what has evolved from my cutting tests and competitions. Therefore it will be a 10" blade, close to 2" wide and 1/4" thick (possibly thicker if stock is available). Overall it will be no more than 15". The handle shape will be unique, but not outlandish or guady, just functional and easy to handle. Handle material ideas are for Micarta, and a variety of woods. Right now the wood of choice for me is Bubinga. I have a source of it with nice figure, and it is very stable. Kind of nutmeg/reddish brown with thin black streaks at the growth rings. I want to do a hidden tang, either mortised, or better yet a through tang giving the knife take-down construction. I will have to figure out how to make that feature economical and repeatable. Stainless steel will be the guard material. My initial sheath idea is a good quality leather with a simple frog/stud. Perhaps offer more customised sheath upon request. Projected retail price would be $400-$500.

I will post a photo of my design when I am sure I will attempt the project. It isn't too far removed from the Fisk/OVB Southwest bowie's blade shape.

My goal is to produce a bowie that performs as close to my Cutter as possible on a production basis. That means a flat grind to a convex edge, specific tapering and balance, attractive, but not a lot of frills that would add cost but not performance. This will be a knife to take into the field that can replace the small camp axe, and still be easy enough to handle for fine cutting tasks. I have a ball with mine, and few if any cans end up in the trash can in one piece.

Again, I appreciate everyone's input, and have noted many comments. Keep them coming if you have more to say. Hopefully some of you will be posting reviews of my entry into the market before the year is out.

;)
 
Bailey, you just described a blade I've wanted for at least 5 years. Please, PLEASE keep us updated on your progress. :cool:
 
Bailey, that sounds great. I'm really excited about this and look forward to seeing it come to fruition. Best of luck to you :cool:
 
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