Brand new(b) to knives - need help

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FirstFreedom

Joined
Jul 21, 2004
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And lots of it. First post here. I'm a gun nut from way back, but have only recently started getting a (significantly) increased interest in knives (just what I needed - another hobby). Anyhoo, though I know a fair amount about guns, I know nearly nothing about knives, swords, etc. Tell you what I've owned thus far, then tell you my current question. I currently carry in the pocket either a Kershaw "Speed Safe" 1560ST, or a CRKT M16-12Z. I have owned one Cold Steel, one Spyderco, and years ago as a teen, I had many Pumas, Bucks, and Gerbers and of course a few miscellaneous and cheapies. I also have a Colt AR15 auto knife. I also have a CRKT Hawk K-AT that I use as a neck knife sometimes, as well as a custom hunting knife from Jason Jacobs out of Oregon that I got at a gun show, with myrtlewood handle, and a few others. If I do start acquiring more, I don't want to make the mistake that I did with some handguns and rifles - getting the wrongs ones for me, then taking a hickey on replacing them with something more my style and fit for my uses. A bit less of a concern with knives, as a mistake is less costly in absolute terms, but nonetheless a concern. I of course want quality and value, not crap. My current interest is in a really good all-purpose knife, with a 5-7" blade and my buddy who is in the army says to check out Busse Combat, Chris Reeve, and Strider. The Reeves have so many choices in fixed blades; what's the dadgummed difference? In contrast, I kind of like the simplicity of the Busse - it's the ONE knife (full-sized) that they come up with to be the ultimate all-purpose knife - the Natural Outlaw. I've also seen the Boker Applegate at gun shows and it looks good too, and the price is nicer. What about some other brands - Artic Kat, Kabar, Benchmade and the other big names in pocketknives, etc? This has no real purpose as I'm not in the military and don't hunt much at present - just for spits and giggles really - maybe for home defense and general home use as well, and camping use. Actually, the main purpose of the knife, for now, is braggin rights, honestly - which ones will garner an "oh, really?" instead of a ho-hum from peeps in the know? The Striders seem OK but the parachute cord thing is a bit cheesy, and will necessarily need replacement over time, which I don't like, just because of the hassle. [edited: oops, you can get these with other handles I see now]. I think I'd prefer double-edged, but not necessarily if I'm compromising too much strength by getting a 2-edger. Basically, anything you can tell me about knives that is a BASIC, SIMPLE primer in all-purpose knives will be helpful, or any other type knife for that matter, if you want to chime in, particularly what brands to consider for good values in this all-purpose knife, and links to their sites if you have it. Oops, I also want a knife that comes with a kydex sheath, or at least kydex lined - as much as I love leather, I don't want to punch any holes in a nice sheath, as I'm not the world's most graceful person. Thanks.

Also, how much should I make of the hardness grading - for examle the Busses say they are 58-60, whereas the Reeves are 55-57 RC?
 
hmmm, 5-7" fixed blades is a huge area. Any particular blade profile you want? Coated, blasted, satin, or polished finish? You don't want a paracord handle, but are you looking for wood, stag, rubber, synthetic, or something more exotic? More of a chopper, or something more neutral or handle heavy in balance?

For an actual using knife, Swamp Rat and Becker will probably get the most nods. For stainless, maybe Fallkniven.

Oh yeah, whether or not you want it made in the USA could also help narrow it down.
 
depends on what you want

if you plan on taking this camping, i would say get a cold steel trailmaster in carbon V or a swamp rat.

if you want a fighting/combat type knife, cold steel military classic, camillus cuda cqb terzuola, and various SOG and falkniven are all good choices.
 
Generally, the harder the steel, the longer it stays sharp. But there's many other factors involved depending on the type of steel itself, and what you intend to do with it.

Soft steel will roll and will dull quicker. However, it'll be easier to sharpen.

Harder steel will resist rolling and dulling, but if it's too hard, the edge could chip. It'll be harder to sharpen.

Different types of steels have different properties when hardened to different levels.

I don't have any experience with fixed blades like you're looking at, so I can't help you there.

And welcome!
 
Thanks for the help. I also like the looks of the SOG Seal, SOG Desert Dagger, SOG X42 Recondo, the Randall No. 1 - hell, I like them all, but want to get something really good to start off knife collecting in earnest. OK, first off, I don't know enough about knives to know what I really want, and since this has no real purpose, other than possibly braggin rights or home defense, so it doesn't really matter, and even if it did, I can't answer the questions as to those features because I don't know jack squat about knives, to speak of. What I'm looking for is for people to throw out some brand names that you think represent good values, or particular models that represent good values in a certain brand, and I can go check them out and see if I like the looks, etc. What I can tell you that I do want is this:

-5-7" blade, preferably in the 5 - 5.5" range.
-Medium to medium-small handle thickness, as that is my hand size
-A great gripping shape and material - I want the most outstanding grippability possible, without giving up too much durability. So I think I want a rubber handle, or a similar material if more durable with the same grippiness, or the same durability but more grippy, etc.
-High strength and quality. I'm much more interested in durability and longevity than looks or presentation at this point. So if that means a "spear point" blade, then maybe that's what I want. I don't want it to break under any circumstance.
-If employed as a defense weapon, is there any real advantage to having a double sided? I would think yes, but what are the tradeoffs? There's always tradeoffs.
-Made in the USA preferred, yes.
- I do tend to like a relatively deep groove for the index finger - forget what that is called, and the more purchase the thumb can get, the better, either from serrations, or a slanted piece of steel or whathave - again, grip is important to me.
-OK, upon reflection, I think *DO* want something more handle-heavy, not a chopper -something that provides good maneuverability if used for self defense - this is also why I want a slightly shorter knife, under 6". Plus I have a LARGE bowie for choppin.
-And preferably a "stealthy" finish; something black/dark, let's say, but this is not a must.
-Preferably under $300, but I'll take suggestions above that, and definitely take them below that if it's just as good as the pricier ones.

I know it's hard to advise when I don't have a use for it. Ha. But...Yeah, like that. I need to check out the Cold Steels, Falkniven, and Camillus, and Beckers mentioned - keep the suggestions coming please - wheres' the best place(s) to visit on the web to check out these? Are Ka-bars crap? The phrase used in describing some parts - "powder steel" - does not inspire confidence. Also, I don't see the Cold Steel Swamp Rat model. Hmmmm. The Cold Steels represent good values, but they don't have quite the braggin quotient behind them, do they? - besides, that trailmaster is a 9" blade - though it looks like a great knife. Remember, noooooooooob here. :)

I guess if I *had* to break it down, this knife is for: 70% braggin, 20% home defense (as a backup to a gun), 10% general camping/outdoor/hunting use - though I have other skinners, so it would more likely be used to chop veggies for the meal when camping, and cleaning fish, than it would for cleaning large game.
 
Welcome to BF.

You're going to get LOTS of suggestions, I suspect. Asking "which is the best knife?" is a bit like asking "Which is the best rifle/handgun?". There are many that are similar in size, shape, steel, handle material, quality and so on. Everyone has their favourite. Most of the one's you've mentioned are up there in the quality stakes and it almost comes down to personal preference.

Probably your best plan is to look at the types of knife that appeal to you from a few of the top makers and go for that. Maybe select three or four, then ask here for opinions and tell us exactly what you plan to use it for. Go with the most popular choice.

It's really only after you've handled a few that you'll come to see what really suits your style. You've begun a long and interesting trip! :)
 
What is "rolling"? (as in, rolling or dulling)

What is kraton? (as in, has a kraton handle)

What is "full tang"? I know what a tang sight is on a rifle, but that ain't helpin me here...

Thanks.
 
FirstFreedom said:
What is "rolling"? (as in, rolling or dulling)

What is kraton? (as in, has a kraton handle)

What is "full tang"? I know what a tang sight is on a rifle, but that ain't helpin me here...

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Rolling is where the edge of the blade "rolls" or bends to one side or the other so you end up trying to cut with a rolled over bit of metal, not too effective.

Kraton is a form of synthetic rubber. Probably be good on a knife that was going to be used in wet conditions a lot.

I'm not an expert on tangs and fixed blades but I'll give the tang question a go, the experts can correct me.

The tang on a knife is the metal part of the knife that projects back from the blade and is encased by the handle. A full tang will extend the length of the handle.
 
A few that I have that are worth a look:

Cold Steel Tanto.
Cold Steel Recon Scout.
Camillus CUDA CQB-1.
Gryphon M30A1.
Benchmade 140SBT.
SOG Seal 2000.
Smith & Wesson HRTDR.
 
Swamp Rat is a brand, not a Cold Steel model: www.swamprat.com and the new SRT line coming soon http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301423&highlight=srt

already good suggestions made, here's a few more to look over

Buck Strider Solution, Masters of Defense ATAC & Stinger, the Mercworx brand of knives, Ontario TAK1, Cold Steels SRK, Timberline Zambezi, Pro-Tech/Walter Brend Elite Combat Dagger, Spyderco Perrin, Becker Campanion, Fallkniven S1

Most of those are 5-6"
 
ayzianboy, glockman, hardhart, and others: Sweetness. That's 'zactly what I was looking for - just something to get me started looking in the right direction at quality brands, not crap. Ya know, the beauty of this is that with the low prices of some of the Cold Steels, SOGs, etc., I can get 2 or 3 of them, and still be able to afford a pricey one as well, not just one to get started. But why do I get the feeling that I'm starting down a road I can never turn back from? :) Still, it's a cheaper road than guns, so, to the extent that it diverts my attention from guns, it will save me $ net in the long run! Not *quite* as much fun as guns, cuz you can't take them out to the range and shoot them, but still kinda fun, and cheaper to collect.

gajinov, thanks!

Any other specific suggestions as to the grippiest of all grippys, preferably with finger grooves? I'm kinda leaning towards getting one of the Chris Reeve's, as I like their looks and their reputation, but as I say, I'll probably get some others as well. Too bad the local stores around here don't carry any of these brands - well maybe 1 or 2. So much for instant gratification.
 
Keep in mind that there are two kinds of knives in the 5" range. One type is your basic “survival knife” which is usually a VERY thick bladed knife. You can beat the bejesus out of it, but cutting efficiency will generally not be exemplary. There is always a tradeoff between durability and cutting efficiency.

The other type of large knife is more of a hunting knife. You can’t open tanks with it, but it is much more useful for real world chores. The edges of well-made hunting knives tend to be much thinner than those on “survival knives”. I greatly prefer the hunting style knife.

With $300.00 to blow, there’s no need to look only at production models. Many handmade models are available in that price range. The first name that comes to mind is Bob Dozier. He is a legend in the knife community, who makes no-nonsense cutting machines. Bob’s Professional Guides Knife has only a 4 3/4" blade, but is VERY highly regarded by outdoorsmen.
 
Before you jump into Busse, I would suggest you check out Swamp Rat (A sister company of Busse) as many of the knives there are pretty much duplicates of Busse Combat in a different steel and about 1/2 the price but not 1/2 the performance. I have both and love both. Swamp Rat in reality is like a gateway drug to Busse. LOL Go over to thw SRKW or Busse forums here in BF and have a look around. Do the same with CRK. They are all high quality. Check out the warranties of each (CS will leave you a little 'cold' here) and ask questions. Plenty of good info to be had just for the asking.

BTW, knife collecting can get more expensive than gun collecting REAL quick. Believe me, I've done both. Have fun.

Rob
 
Thanks again. Yes, I coincidentally got the Dozier name recommendation independently today from that same buddy. He says Dozier is affiliated with AG Russell somehow. I will definitely check his knives out. Anyway, to kick things off, today I picked up one of these, since it was about 1/2 off, super sale (it was like $41 plus tax):

http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-Product Spec?bc408,

It's called the Bear MGC, BC408, Tactical Tanto. I really like it so far - super solid, simple, and well-balanced to me. But it's more in the survival category - very thick. There were several that I did find locally that I looked at and *almost* got before I got the Buck: a Cold Steel Military Classic, a Kabar (standard I think), a CRKT M60 SOFTB, a Benchmade, all black, with a cool look to it and the sheath - not sure the model, but I *think* it's new. It's not the 10510 gamer, but perhaps similar - more expensive. I also have to say, although I have not handled one, as far as grippy knives are concerned, the Buck Nighthawk looks pretty kick butt - anyone have one?

That Dozier KS-3 is waaay nice. So are those Tops knives. Curse you all. :) Well, thanks again - looks like I'm pretty well jump-started down the road to bankruptcy. :) Oh well, it will be fun....
 
Swamp Rat Camp Tramp seems to fit your description fairly well. I am relatively new to knives as well and did much of the same research you are doing. For a no-nonsense knife that is a very tough "all-rounder" it is hard to beat. Great handle material too. A bit larger than you wanted, but quite honestly the knife has shrunk in my hands as I got used to it.

Check out Ferman knives as well. They are quite nice along with Busse.
 
FirstFreedom said:
What about some other brands - Artic Kat, Kabar, Benchmade and the other big names in pocketknives, etc? This has no real purpose as I'm not in the military and don't hunt much at present - just for spits and giggles really - maybe for home defense and general home use as well, and camping use.
Click to expand...

first, for bragging rights? look @ this the BK Tac Tool by Becker Knife & Tool
in fact, look @ the entire Becker Knife & Tool line of knives...
the Ontario TAK with 1095 steel by Ontario Knives or the Ontario TAK with D2 steel by Ontario Knives
the Moccasin Ranger by TOPS Knives
the Smoke Jumper by TOPS Knives

and definitely look @ the Swamp Rat knives... they're extremely tough... arguably the toughest...

damn... there's really thousands of knives to reccomend taking a look @... especially for your uses, haha.
 
Getting down to basics, what defines a knife is an edge and a handle. Everything else is supporting material, weight, or overhead. The optimum knife would have no blade, just an edge, but would be infinitely stiff and would have enough weight to provide some inertia for chopping. Both the width and the thickness of the blade increase the difficulty of pushing the edge through the target. Thickness increases the effort to wedge the target material apart and increases friction to drag the blade through the material. The width of the blade increases the drag as well since it increases the surface area subject to friction. These are the sources of some of your tradeoffs when you select a knife design.

For a fighting knife a very desireable characteristic is speed. As the girls at St. Trinians would sing, "She who draws the sword last always comes out worst". You want a long blade for reach and a light blade for speed, but if the blade is too light it does not cut effectively. I think of a minimum weight for a fighting knife is one that I could execute a snap cut and break the thin forearm bone called the radius that is behind the base of the thumb. You really don't want a handle-heavy blade, you need the blade somewhat point heavy for chopping effectiveness. Double edged knives are usually a little light at the point to provide this performance. This leads me to a design like a bowie knife, a Busse, or some of the Swamp Rats. Another thing that is critical performance parameter for a fighting knife is the belly of the blade (the curved section that leads the point in a slash). A thin, sharp, and nicely back-curved belly greatly enhances the slashing effectiveness of a blade. The lower part of the blade is good for chopping at hard things while the belly of the blade slices through things up to the hardness of leather and nylon. Unless you have a very broad double-edged blade you don't get the heft for chopping or the belly for optimal slashing. A sharpened false edge like a bowie is a compromise that works, but you sacrifice some tip weight for this.

For a utility knife you generally want a single-edged blade. This is because you usually don't want to cut things that are touching the back side of the blade (this might include your hand or the intestines of an elk you are gutting) and you may want to hammer on the back side of the blade. There is a technique for cutting through heavy wood with a knife usually called batonning. You take a heavy stick and use it like a mallet to hammer on the back side of a blade to force it into or through wood. This doesn't work with a double-edged blade. You often want to hold the spine of a blade for fine tasks and that doesn't work with a double-edged blade.

As one of those knife trade offs you want the blade as thin as you can get away with and the blade grind to be at as low an angle as possible. A blade that forms a simple wedge cross section from edge to spine is the best. If you have a double-edged blade the angle has to be twice as high to reach the desired thickness along the midline.

If you want a knife that is really tough (and who doesn't want a tough "bragging knife") you want a nonstainless blade. Stainless is just more brittle than non-stainless, particularly simpler carbon steels. Even simple steels get more brittle as they get harder. Think of how a file will break if you drop it on the floor. If reduced in hardness to 56 RC that file would be tough. Edge hardness, on the other hand keeps the edge from bending over sideways on impact or developing sideways ripples in the edge. A nice advantage of carbon steels is that if you are clever you can cool the edge faster than the spine when you do your heat treatment and have a hard edge and a softer/tougher spine and core of the blade. So I would look at Swamp Rat knives for this type of material and heat treatment.

All things considered I would look at Swamp Rat Knives. Their large blades are made of a very tough alloy that is differentially hardened. Their single-edged blades are the most practical design. They provide this at a much lower price point than you would expect.

If you need stainless for some reason you have to look at laminated blades for ultimate toughness. This is one thing you can do to get a different edge and body hardness in a stainless blade. In this case the blade is made of a sandwich of two different alloys. The core is a harder alloy which is sandwiched between layers of a softer alloy. The whole blade is subject to the same heat treatment only the core ends up at 58-60 RC hardness while the outside layers are in the low 50's. The guys that come to mind for this type of blade are Fallkniven. The problem with their designs is that most of the large ones have a saber grind that only covers half or so of the blade width.

If you don't insist that your knives are tough you could look at knives that have harder blades and wear resistant alloys. The Doziers are a pretty good example of this. He uses D2 tool steel that will hold up to anything close to normal use and will hold and edge for a very long time.
 
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