Brass & Steel.

[Yvsa]

:
Hi Uncle Bill.
Is brass imported to make the parts needed for the Kuhkuris and scabbards?

What was used commonly long ago for the buttcaps and bolsters as well as the scabbards trimmed with brass now?

Have the buttcaps always been made the way they are now?

What about the steel for the blades? Was it imported especialy for the craftsmen?

Since there were no junked Mercedes once upon a time was some other carbon steel recycled so to speak?

I was also wondering about the old wootz steel that is supposed to have originated in India? I have a feelng that the craftsmen the world over at one time traded methods and technique.
If that is so then the Kamis in Nepal probably had interchange with other Smiths or metalworkers that traveled through the country??

If so then they may have had the secret of making the wootz steel themselves?
I think a pic of one was posted made from damascus at one time made in Nepal. The old wootz steel still fascinates me.I was reading on a site that the Rockwell Hardness wasn't up to what I thought it would be considering some of the legends that is told about those old watered steel blades. If I remember right the hardest part of the blade was only Rc 32 and the softer parts was in the low 20s.

One last question on this post.

Are there any tales or legends that you or Yangdu know or know about that are told about the old Kuhkuris?

I would be very interested in hearing them or reading about them if there is any kind of reference.
I have a feeling that they may be like some of the old Indin stories that are told among ourselves.
One of the old stories is about the young warrior who's bow was the rainbow. It is a kind of Cinderella story.

Thanks Uncle Bill again for the great Kuhkuris and knowledge you share with us. It is much appreciated.
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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

[This message has been edited by Yvsa (edited 27 June 1999).]

 

[tallwingedgoat]

I heard a custom knife maker say he's got an old Khyber bowie that looks to have been made from 4 or 5 pieces of steel.

The smith probably gathered files, saw blades, maybe even steel coils and just forge welded them together.

 

[Bill Martino]

Yvsa, interesting post. I'll help out where I can.

I have not been back to Nepal since 1991 and things may have changed a bit since that time but to the best of my knowledge the brass and steel used in khukuri manufacture is still imported. In our case steel is imported to India from Germany, Japan, and elsewhere in the form of car or truck springs and then imported from India to Nepal. Brass is made in India and goes to Nepal.

Yangdu and I are friends with Prithi Singh, the mother of the owner of what was and still may be the only steel factory in Nepal. Last I heard they were making mostly rebar and steel used in building construction which would not be suitable for khukuris.

Years ago Nepal was considerably larger geographically than it is today and some of Northern India was Nepal. Steel and many other things for that matter came from India and still do to this day. One of Nepal's major problems has been a very serious trade deficit.

Buttcaps were not always as they are today and, in fact, as you can see in our pix some of the old khukuris had tulwar handles. My old ivory handled khukuri has a buttcap of ivory also, held in place by two small screws. The buttcap that is used today is not very good and you will not see it on khukuris made for local use. Prior to WWII this buttcap was much more substantial than it is today. The buttcap on our logo khukuri, made in Salyan around 1940, has a very substantial buttcap.

The best legend I can recount about the khukuri is the story of the creation of what was to become the Kathmandu Valley itself. Like Mexico City, the Kathmandu Valley is surrounded by mountains and was once a lake. Legend has it that Manjushree himself took a sword (khukuri) and cut a swath in the mountains to drain the lake and make the lush valley. Of course, we have the more modern stories -- the man who killed a bear with a khukuri, the man who killed the tiger, etc. I don't know of any book containing a collection of these legends. They are usually passed on in oral tradition or in bits and pieces in various books.

What did I miss?

Uncle Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 27 June 1999).]

 

[Yvsa]

:
Thanks Uncle Bill.
I am assumeing that the buttcap is put on to protect the end of the handle and to prevent it from being knocked off. Is that correct?
Interesting about the ivory buttcap perhaps it was put on either for a more finished look or to maybe cover up a larger hole thru the ivory than what the tang filled?
I sure wouldn't think an ivory handled Kuhkuri would be used for rough work.

Hi Goat.
I was looking in a site where there were several pieces of steel forge welded together for making a larger piece of steel.It may have been for one of those big knives you mention.The high carbon steel was put on the edge.
I saw where someone who is in the forum lives on thier old home place? and there are different old tools still hanging around that was made from iron with a steel insert for the working edge of it.I don't remember who was telling about that. I do know there were "Tomahawks" made like that also and some were heavy brass or bronze with a steel edge.

Something else I found interesting was that sometimes two or three pieces of pattern welded steel with different patterns would be welded side to side to make a larger piece
of steel and then forged into a knife.
That made for some interesting looking blades. I just wonder how they knew which piece of pattern welded steel would be best for the working edge.
After reading about the Rc hardness of some of those old blades it makes me wonder where the legends came from? Perhaps it was because the pattern welded steel of the time was better than any one singular steel?
The old steels are something I like to muse about.


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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

 

[Bill Martino]

Yvsa, the khukuris in Nepal's National Museum are behind glass or wired to the wall so one can't get at them to check the hardness of the blades -- understandably, I suppose. But up at Kami's farm there were a couple of old khukuris that had been used for farmwork for 100 years or more and the steel was pretty good. They had been reworked so many times the blades were more slender than a Sirupati but the still took a good edge and would do a serious day's work.

Uncle Bill

 

[Rusty]

Yvsa, the place I remember seeing a picture of several pieces of steel forged together to make a blade was in an article ( not sure if in a magazine or online ) talking about full tang vs. hidden or rattail tangs. Point being with a limited amount on hand the steel not used up in making a full tang could be better put to use on the working end of the blade. Handle material is cheap and plentiful. Probably why few village khukuries have tangs all the way thru.