Brass vs.NS bolsters

JEFFREY

JEFFREY

Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
333
I have two knives from Petes. One is Brass and is as smooth as silk to open. THe Ns is quite another story, even after being reworked by Wild Bill Cody.
Has anyone ever experienced any functional differences in their Ns vs. brass bolstered knives?
I am going to order another, so your answers will have an effect on my selection of bolster material.
My second ques. I suppose is directed to Joe.
Can you request a person at Petes to make your knife? ( Wild Bill Cody) This fellow did magic on the action of my Stag 110.
 
My 110 is stag with NS bolsters, rebladed to BG42, and it needs some "smoothing"...
Hmmmmm....
Rob
 
It's been awhile since I was in the manufacturing industry, but isn't brass a "self-lubricating" metal? If so, brass may be inherantly smoother in friction surfaces than nickel/silver. I've used a whole lot of brass bushings in my time, but have never used nickel/silver.

I'm not sure what difference there is in actual coefficient of friction.
 
My experience with respect to the Nickel Silver vs. Brass 110 handles is that my regular production line 110 bought at a hardware store for less than $40.00 with the regular Brass handle is just about perfect with respect to crispness of opening and closing, smoothness of operation, zero blade play and perfect blade centering when closed while most of my PCKS 110s are not.

After considerable correspondence about these problems with Buck Knives I am still unclear as to exactly why this is so, but to the best of my understanding one of the explanations was that there are some problems in their production process with the Nickel Silver handles and especially if fitted with BG-42 blades. This Nickel Silver handle plus BG-42 blade problem results in blade play and less than perfect centering which they consider to be within "acceptable limits". I am not sure yet how I feel about "acceptable limits" as it applies to what I consider to be a premium price for a 110 from their "custom" shop when except for the extended choice of materials available from PCKS my production line 110 provides operational perfection.

My three 532 LE2000s also have Nickel Silver handles with BG-42 blades and are very near to if not perfect with respect to the criteria noted above.

I will be greatly interested in the experience of other PCKS customers and forum members.
 
Maybe this will help a bit. I ,too, own a Pete"s NK bg-42 blade "custom" . When I got it it was a stiff as
crutch in the action. Man was I ticked! But to fair I started to "wear" the knife in while watching T.V. .
The more I cycled it the better it got. So (now don't laugh) I put just a tiny bit of auto grease on the pivot
to speed thing up a bit. THAT helped a lot. Now the knife is still not butter smooth but is a whole lot
better the more I use it. I also own an older well used 112 in NK and while it was a bit stiff too it is
now smooth as glass and a favorite carry. So it seems to be that NK will take more time the wear in
than brass will.
 
I'm not sure if anyone else is going to add to this topic so I appreciate your help.Especially WrayH.
It is as if he pulled the words right out of my mind.I just didn't have the balls to say it.I mean,
Joe and the rest of those folks at Buck are just such damn nice folks ya don't want to offend anyone.So to play it on the safe side I'm headed over to Petes to put together something in BRASS.
I just have this thing for buck 110s and Sebenzas.
Thanks for your input.
 
Jeffrey,
My comments on the PCKS 110 NS, BG-42 problem that I have experienced were in no way intended to be detrimental to Joe or his staff. No, to the contrary Joe and his staff have exerted great effort on my behalf to try to solve these problems and I am very appreciative of their efforts. As I understand the situation these problems simply have no solution.

My understanding is that PCKS can and does promise to produce a 110 that I have ordered and deliver it within "acceptable limits" as to blade play, smoothness and crispness of operation and centering but production wise they cannot and do not guarantee to deliver a PCKS 110 to order that has no blade play, blade exactly centered when closed and with completely smooth and crisp operation. It may well be that the knife delivered will be perfect, but if it is, it is due to happenstance and not because PCKS promised perfection. It is clearly not something that Joe can can be expected to do anything about.

As I mentioned in my earlier comments, I would really like to see as much input as possible from others about this. If my perception is wrong I will certainly be pleased to entertain correction.
 
Well, I've opened and closed my PCKS 110s and can not see or feel any difference between the brass and nickle silver bolstered knives. That's comparing the Pete's knives only. They are all good and tight which means they do not open easily out of the box. Thats 11 knives made between March 2000 and July 2001.
 
I'll throw titanium into the mix. My 560 with the textured titanium finish was a very rough opener at first. It was a little better when it came back from Buck with the BG-42 upgrade, but still rough. It's gotten a bit of use since it came back from Buck, and I also poured a ton of oil into it. The 560 is now as smooth as any of my 110s.

It seems that Buck knives were meant to be used. :)
 
I shot this one to the engineers.

Theoretically, BG-42, being harder, should have better action (less galling) against any material. The make up of Nickel Silver is mostly brass and that is the reason we can run sintered brass and nickel silver parts in our same sintering dies (has to be same shrink rate). Nickel silver also tends to be a little harder.

Blade Centering is all due to the relationship between the blade rivet and the blade rivet hole and the holes in either handle all being lined up correctly. If they are off the blade will not sit centered. Another issue in production is that the blade rivet "snakes" and bows and might cause the blade not to center perfectly. These are hard to always control in a straight production setting but pete's is a different story.

I leave that to the engineers to answer...
 
I know this isn’t totally on the same subject, but may have some relevance… Has buck ever thought about using screws instead of rivets? Do rivets have any advantage other than price? It would be nice to be able to loosen up the pivot on some of the harder to open knives, until the knife fully breaks in. It would also be a big help when it comes time to cleaning the knife. Not to mention being able to correct for the inevitable horizontal blade play that seems to come after extended use.

Also, and keep in mind that I’m not completely sure on how something like the 110 is constructed, would brass washers help in smoothing things out? I really like how smooth and durable the action is on my Sebenza. Seeing that Buck is already heavily into brass, brass washers would seem to be a next step in the evolution of the 110.

Then again, what do I know? I’m just a user, not a manufacturer.
 
I am not here to complain, however I was at the locale Army Navy store and picked up a Benchmade "Elishewitz 690" $145.00 I was pretty sure it wasn't going to be much, but it was super smooth and
there was No, NONE, NADA lateral blade play.I know nothing about how a 110 is designed.I am inclined to break one of these puppies apart to take a look.
The hex screws and washers may be an excellent idea. Buck does come out with new knives but hasn't
seemed to improved on the operation of the 110 since it's inception.
Buck engineers are thinking who the hell do these guys think they are? In all honesty I have a stronge affection for 110s I do not however like rough presentations of a blade or lateral blade play. If the design of the 110 causes blade play, change the design. What exactly is acceptable limits? Why do I have to break in a $150.00 custom knife? I changed my mind on my next Petes Custom.
I'm just not going to buy anymore.
 
We did a knife a few years back that was similar to the current model 560. The 186 had titanium sides and belt clip and a 110 blade. You could take it apart with a hex head wrench. It was hard, unless you were very familiar with the workings of the knife, to put it back together again without stripping out the sides. That is why we now have the 560, it is basically the same knife but it is riveted.
Please don't apologize for asking for improvements. That is why Buck has been around for 100 years, they have always listened to their customers.
I hope this helps.
 
I have noticed two or three on EBay over the past few months. I think that the winning bids were $125 or higher. These also had a rather bulky bolt-on pocket clip for tip-up carry and included a small hex tool for assembly/disassembly that could be attached to the knife with a split ring.
 
Comparing the Benchmade 690 to the Buck 110 is like comparing apples and oranges. The production 690 retails for $170.-180.
The standard production 110 retails for $59.-69. The 690 is a liner lock while the 110 is a lock back.

Should I not buy any more Ruger firearms because my Model 77 bolt action .308 just will not fire as fast as a Springfield Armory M1-A semi-auto?
 
I should of known better. first of all, the 690 cost me $145.I know that cuss I bought it! If you would of read the post. I was referring to a custom Buck which I paid $150 for, not a standard.
As far as lateral blade play is concerned, it makes little difference if it is a lock back or a liner lock.
And finally in ref: to the Rug mod 77. If it doesn't work for you, you do not buy another mod 77. Again my friend, if you would of read the post. I specifically made reference to Petes Customs not Buck knives.
Maybe I shouldn't have, but I took your post personally.I felt as if you were painting me as a fool.If you'd like to continue this discourse, lets use e-mail so we don't have to bore everyone to death. Your friend in arms and a fellow knife nut.
 
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