Brine me a river. Boiling Eggs and Quenching Blades.

Rick Marchand

Rick Marchand

Donkey on the Edge
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This one seems simple enough but I am seeing a lot of confusion and misinformation out there with regard to brine vs. straight water quench. I know it's the interwebz and tough to decide whether or not to believe what is presented to you. It is important to make educated decisions.

Recently, I had a friend tell me he puts salt in the water he boils his eggs in. That struck me as odd. He proceeded to claim that the the salt lowers the boiling point of the water and cooks his eggs more evenly. Gahhh:eek: After I informed him(over some time) that it actually increases the boiling point, he just adjusted his theory and claimed that maybe the increased temperature is what cooks his eggs better.:rolleyes: I pointed out that the displacement is only a couple degrees, to which he then abandoned all attempts at rational discussion and went with... "All I know is that my eggs cook better when I add salt to the water."

That was fun and reminded me how often I see the same reasoning given for quenching. There IS a reason for brine quenching but I find a lot of folks confused as to why. PLEASE CORRECT ME if I am also getting this screwed up... it wouldn't be the first time my World has crumble down around me. Firstly, brine makes the quench more harsh, not milder. It accelerates cooling. Not because it raises the boiling point but because the salt crystallizes and violently explodes during the process. This breaks up the vapor jacket and essentially "self-agitates" the quench. I am sure there is a bit more to it, but I think that is the basic concept.

So in conclusion... Put salt in the water when you boil your pasta. It aligns the gluten molecules to magnetic North, which in turn, increases flavor while lowering potential flatulence issues...:eek:. oop... pardon me.:o
 
Rick Marchand said:
in conclusion... Put salt in the water when you boil your pasta. It aligns the gluten molecules to magnetic North, which in turn, increases flavor while lowering potential flatulence issues...:eek:. oop... pardon me.:o
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Thanks for the explanation...even though I was raised in an Italian household and have pasta ~ 4-5days a week, I've always had trouble explaining why we always salt the pasta water. But I thought it aligned the molecules South???...;)
 
While I don't know anything at all about brine quenching, as an (ex) culinary arts major, I do have $0.02 about boiling eggs!

This is just my theory, completely off the top of my head. When boiling eggs, you have to be careful to not actually boil the water, but keep it just below the steam point, because while pure water can only reach 212f, steam may get much hotter than that, "causing a sulfur reaction in the egg ruining the flavor and showing your incompetence... blah blah blah". Steam would be a terrible medium for quenching, and delaying its formation could allow your steel to quench that much faster (still a guess/theory!). As well, saltwater is a conductor, and perhaps adding the salt allows the quench heat to dissipate over the entire body of water more quickly, rather than stay localized?

Either way, you can tell your friend that the reason he adds a lot of salt to his boiling egg water, is because saltwater is more dense than freshwater. The goal is to make the water so salty, that the eggs float, and never touch the bottom of the pan, which is much hotter "causing a sulfur reaction in the egg ruining the flavor and showing your incompetence..."
 
salt in boiling eggs is ridiculous. Salt in pasta adds flavor because pasta absorbs water when cooking. I was always taught that pasta water should be as salty as the Mediterranean, or a good solid handful in a gallon and a half.

For quenching, I know very little, but I assumed that it was because water saturated with salt lowers the surface tension and/or decreases the speed at which water vaporizes so you get water contact with the blade, instead of just a vapor jacket. Of course, I might just be thinking of boiling eggs.
 
But with the pasta example, you must also ad extra VIRGIN olive oil to the pot to keep it from boiling over........and align any stray molecules that the added gravitational pull of the full moon missed. ;)
 
Not sure about that Nick. Superheated steam and water cannot exist together. The vapor bubbles in boiling water cannot be hotter than 212F. To do so, requires manipulation of pressure, heat and pure water(distilled)... not accomplished by simply placing a lid on a pot. The water boiling at the bottom of a pot is not hotter than water at the top... and the inside bottom of the pot is not hotter than the water it is boiling. If you are targeting temperatures just below the boiling point, that is a different animal. I don't know anything about sulfur reactions in eggs(aside from the "end" result) so I can't comment on that.
 
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The POT bottom can be hotter than 212F or at least act like it is. I saw that last night when I made some "boil in bag" red curry. The rice bag floated, but the curry bag sat on the bottom. The plastic where it had contacted the bottom of the pot was puckered up from the heat, The rest of the plastic was not.
Rick Marchand said:
Not sure about that Nick. Superheated steam and water cannot exist together. The vapor bubbles in boiling water cannot be hotter than 212F. To do so, requires added pressure and heat... not accomplished by simply placing a lid on a pot. The water boiling at the bottom of a pot is not hotter than water at the top... and the inside bottom of the pot is not hotter than the water it is boiling. If you are targeting temperatures just below the boiling point, that is a different animal. I don't know anything about sulfur reactions in eggs(aside from the "end" result) so I can't comment on that.
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With egg boiling, I place the eggs in pot of water, bring to boil, then cover and remove from heat and wait ten minutes.
I'm curious about the knife issue but I can't contribute there.
 
jdm61 said:
The POT bottom can be hotter than 212F or at least act like it is. I saw that last night when I made some "boil in bag" red curry. The rice bag floated, but the curry bag sat on the bottom. The plastic where it had contacted the bottom of the pot was puckered up from the heat, The rest of the plastic was not.
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You were tricked by that devilish little pot, bud. The plastic bag on the bottom displaced the water and made contact with the pot surface, directly. Which could happen with eggs I suppose but not to the same extent. Save yourself the salt and put a wire mesh on the bottom of the pot the next time you boil eggs. That should prevent any direct thermal bridging. See... I could have been a damn good chef... in a Kraft Dinner kinda way.
 
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Well like I said, as far as quenching goes, it was just a theory. As far as the eggs, the point of floating them wasn't because the water was hotter at the bottom, but the bottom of the pot (in boiling water) can be hotter than the water around it. Really the proper temperature for hard cooking eggs is closer to 180, but you start off at 200... its been a while. As for a wire mesh, yes do that too. Also Google says the point of salting the water is to help keep the albumen from leaking if your shell cracks, which makes more sense. I'm just going by what I was told by my cooking instructor.
 
Decreased vapour jacket and decreased surface tension are the benefits of brine. Boiled eggs. No effin' idea. I like mine boiled for 7 min and quenched in a cold water stream. I do get a lot of cracking of the shells, but mostly from dropping the eggs too harshly in the austentizing step.
 
Salt is used in boiling eggs because it will congeal the protein of the egg if it cracks and leaks out. It will seal the crack and keep the egg from streaming out white into the water.

So there you go :)
 
Eggs are better with cryo too. Try cooling them in iced or very cold water as fast as possible. You won't get any gray in the yolks and no or at least a lot less sulfur, perfect eggs.

What was the question again?
 
Nick EBK said:
Well like I said, as far as quenching goes, it was just a theory. As far as the eggs, the point of floating them wasn't because the water was hotter at the bottom, but the bottom of the pot (in boiling water) can be hotter than the water around it. Really the proper temperature for hard cooking eggs is closer to 180, but you start off at 200... its been a while. As for a wire mesh, yes do that too. Also Google says the point of salting the water is to help keep the albumen from leaking if your shell cracks, which makes more sense. I'm just going by what I was told by my cooking instructor.
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Well then, I will have to sample dishes from both you and your cooking instructor to totally understand your position with regard to this subject. A nice ale helps, too:D
 
Hmm... I think the yolk would impart desired properties into the steel.

Wait a tic... frothed egg whites? You may be onto something.
 
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