BRK&T vs. Swamp Rat

B

bladefoolish

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Mar 26, 2004
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Anyone have any ideas on how a Swamp Rat (the older model) compares to a Barkie of roughly equalivalent size? What would be the pros and cons or each, or do they perform about the same?
 
I use both brands. I have not yet found a 5" blade Barkie I like better than the SR Ratmandu. Got a Fox River Magnum but the handle was too small. Both brands use 52100 steel, although most Barkies are A2. I think the Swamp Rat HRLM and Bark River Bravo-1 are comparable. I prefer the Bravo by a small amount. Bark Rivers come sharper, are better finished, and come with sheaths. Swamp Rats may be a little tougher. They are both outstanding brands and it depends on which models you're talking about to make a comparison.
 
Generally speaking, I have found Bark Rivers to be better slicers than the equivalent sized (overall shape and length) SR. By that, I mean that they can cut something very thin with less effort and concentration to make something thin (if that makes sense :rolleyes:). Much of that I'm sure can be attributed to BRKTs having thinner blades. And my BRKTs have all been A2.

Really, the question you ask regards a balancing act--toughness vs. cutting ability. IMO, under extreme use/abuse, the SR will outlast the BRKT before critical failure. It also cuts "well enough" for me. Will that be well enough for you? Will you ever need to use a knife under conditions in which the BRKT will fail if you were to use it instead of a SR?

For me, I like to use my BRKT in the kitchen and for light bushcrafty stuff. If I go somewhere where I conceivably could get myself into a jam, then I just choose SR or Busse. That's not to say a Barkie couldn't handle whatever jam I'm talking about--it's just that I feel the SR could probably handle it more easily.
 
"depends on which models you're talking about to make a comparison. "

Sorry, thought I put it in the original post. I have a Howling Rat (and a Camp Tramp, but that's in a different category).
 
I think when it comes to toughness and edge holding there are none that can touch the Swamprat line ( the SR101 versions not the 154CM ones ), hell someone even cut a car door off with a Howling Rat ! Search out Cliff Stamps reviews on the old Howling Rat and Camptramp.
However with the factory grind they won't be us good as most Barkies when it comes to Bushcraft type work.
Kinda depends what you are wanting the knife to do I guess ?
 
bladefoolish said:
"depends on which models you're talking about to make a comparison. "

Sorry, thought I put it in the original post. I have a Howling Rat (and a Camp Tramp, but that's in a different category).
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Both the HR and CT are the older Resiprene handled knives. I prefer the newer micarta handled ones. The HRLM fits my hand better than the HR. The Camp Tramp is a classic and hard to beat. You can chop a jeep with it. The modern Chopweiler is a superb camp knife, too. It's Bark River counterpart would be the Hudson Bay Camp knife, which is a better knife for skinning and and some bushcraft tasks, but probably not as tough. The knives have a different feel. I like them both. I own both. The BRKT equivalent of the HR or HRLM would be the Bravo-1. I prefer the Bravo a little over the HRLM, but both are fine knives.
 
I have a Howling Rat LM (used to own the Ratmandu and M6)and a Barky Mini-Northstar. They're not the same size but I can say that the grind on the Barky is better but the handle of the HRLM has a better fit and finish. There's a little bit of daylight between the scale and the tang on the Barky so I'd say they're about equal as far as overall fit and finish are concerned.
 
I am going to para-phrase you Pit. Only because you mention 2 things, yet do not connect the dots.

Point 1

pitdog said:
I think when it comes to toughness and edge holding there are none that can touch the Swamprat line ( the SR101 versions not the 154CM ones ),
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Point 2

pitdog said:
However with the factory grind they won't be us good as most Barkies when it comes to Bushcraft type work.
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My point is, that we tend to forget about geometry, when in reality, it rules more than you think! Put barkie A2 in the same thick geometry as a SR and I do not think you would be able to make the first statement so easily.

Now, neither is right or wrong. It is just personal preference. It comes down to "what do you want your knife to do?" Only then can you answer the question of what geometry it should have.

B
 
Brian Andrews said:
I am going to para-phrase you Pit. Only because you mention 2 things, yet do not connect the dots.

Point 1



Point 2



My point is, that we tend to forget about geometry, when in reality, it rules more than you think! Put barkie A2 in the same thick geometry as a SR and I do not think you would be able to make the first statement so easily.

Now, neither is right or wrong. It is just personal preference. It comes down to "what do you want your knife to do?" Only then can you answer the question of what geometry it should have.

B
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You make a valid point Brian, but regardless of edge geometry they really know how to get the most out of the heat-treat process at Swamprat Knives in order to produce crazy edge toughness !;):thumbup:

RegulatorImpact.jpg


And if I was to be dropped of in some remote area right now, Alaska for example and had to grab one knife that I could rely on 100%, this would still be the one......

PC190016.jpg
 
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pitdog said:
, but regardless of edge geometry they really know how to get the most out of the heat-treat process at Swamprat Knives in order to produce crazy edge toughness !;):thumbup:
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Actually.....that is just my point. Personally....and this is just my opinion (so take it for what it is worth) that geometry is way more important than some mystical, magical heat treat process that is way too complicated for mere mortals to understand. Unfortunately, folks whole heartedly buy into that nonsense, with out question or really thinking.

Again, just my opinion.
 
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Brian Andrews said:
Actually.....that is just my point. Personally....and this is just my opinion (so take it for what it is worth) that geometry is way more important than some mystical, magical heat treat process that is way too complicated for mere mortals to understand. Unfortunately, folks whole heartedly buy into that nonsense.

Again, just my opinion.
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It would be nice to have two blades exactly the same made up by each company eh, one in A2 from BRKT and one in SR101 from SRKW so we could compare !
TOPS knives make their knives with incredibly thick edges but I still don't think they would take the abuse that a Swamprat knife could take !
In fact Cliff Stamp compared a Swamprat knife against a Fehrman and the Fehrman started to chip, I'm pretty sure that wasn't just down to the geometry.
 
The Fehrman was CPM-3V! Big difference.

I did not mean all my comments to mean that steel does not matter. Those two are a bit far off. I meant it more for the comparison of 52100 and A2 (didn't even mean it directed toward barkies), or the other tool steels for that matter.
 
I am yet to need to chop a cinder block with a knife, but I always find those pics funny. I have a harder time relating to the Swamp Rat/Busse thing. I am just an outdoorsy guy that likes to use cool tools. The Bark River approach is more my speed. Beautiful, purpose driven designs for people who like outdoor activities. The tactical thing ain't my bag. That said, I still have my Hairy Carry. A tad thick and heavy for a 4incher, and the handle is not that comfortable.
 
I have knives from both companies, and like them both. Both make knives that are pretty thick at the spine. While Busse/SR has often generated the complaint of edges being too thick, the Howling Rat isn't. It's an excellent full flat grind in 52100 that excels in many things. I think of it as a hunting knife that can also do many woodcraft tasks. I thinned the edge on mine out because I'm "one of those guys", but it really didn't need it.

BR sells some comparable knives in 52100 also, one that I like is the little boone. It is also full flat ground, and even thinner than the HR. Excellent hunter.

I admit to being biased to the HR. You can probably find an equivalent, but if the HR doesn't do it for me in terms of cutting, I move up to a Dozier, or soon, a Krein.
 
My Swamp Rat HRLM slices and cuts every bit as well as my Bravo-1. But I did give it a full convex grind.
HRLM004.jpg
 
Brian Andrews said:
The Fehrman was CPM-3V! Big difference.

I did not mean all my comments to mean that steel does not matter. Those two are a bit far off. I meant it more for the comparison of 52100 and A2 (didn't even mean it directed toward barkies), or the other tool steels for that matter.
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Shouldn't the 3V have been the tougher steel?

I like both companies' knives. The Swamp Rats are thick but you can always reprofile to your liking (which they say is the point). I do prefer the older Res-C handles, especially the Camp Tramp and Battle Rat- I guess I like my Bandicoot pretty well, too!
 
Barkies and Swamp Rats are both great knives, but they are designed by their respective makers for very different things.

If you want a knife you can abuse the heck out of, and still have a half-way decent edge, get a Swamp Rat (or other Busse designed knife).

If you want a knife that will slice and dice better than most any other blade out there, and still be darned tough, get a Barkie.

Busse designed knives emphasize toughness as their over-riding characteristic. Stewart designed knives (Bark River) emphasize working (cutting) ability as their over-riding characteristic. Both have awesome guarantees, and I wouldn't feel worried about carrying either in the deepest woods.

My personal preference is for the Barkies - I don't often feel the need to chop concrete or metal! :D
 
Barkies are my preferred knife, although I've never owned a Swamp Rat. And I will say this, if they ever start making HRLM's again, like Horn Dog's, I'll sell a kidney, if necessary! (Just a figure of speech, put down that knife, Talfuchre :eek:)

Doc
 
I have a barkie bravo 1 and a busse batac. I like both knives very much but I prefer he barkie more for its philosophy.

DOn't get me wrong, i love tough knives, but I find barkies carry a little more traditional. Just more of a regular camp knife not too tacticool like busse or swamp rat.

Secondly, i just don't really like coated knives. Just doesnt float my boat. Oddly enough i often carry a coat bm 710:) So i should sy i just dont like coatings as much:)
 
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