Broken butter & molasses???

[IVANKERLEY]

was given a knife that was my gramps, the main blade is broken and the second blade sharpened to almost a spike, at somepoint somebody tried to re-pin it, the tang stamp says Schrade Cutlery Walden NY 3 lines, 3 1/8" closed, the scales i think are the butter and molasses, maybe celluloid?? Im not all that familiar with Schrade, any body got any ideas on what pattern this is both blades open at the same end, attached is a scan. Any info would be appreciated, its a shame the scales are nice looking and in pretty good shape
thanks
ivan

 

[thawk]

was given a knife that was my gramps, the main blade is broken and the second blade sharpened to almost a spike, at somepoint somebody tried to re-pin it, the tang stamp says Schrade Cutlery Walden NY 3 lines, 3 1/8" closed, the scales i think are the butter and molasses, maybe celluloid?? Im not all that familiar with Schrade, any body got any ideas on what pattern this is both blades open at the same end, attached is a scan. Any info would be appreciated, its a shame the scales are nice looking and in pretty good shape
thanks
ivan

Here's one that is probably it. Glenn might give you a pattern number if it is on the back of the blade.

http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/corners/glenn/pages/Misc059.htm

 

[glennbad]

The Schrade Cutlery Co. tang-stamped knives did not usually carry any kind of pattern stamp on the knife. So you have to go by the look and description of the knife for an I.D.

Your knife looks like an Equal End slim pattern jack knife, 3 1/8" long (closed), brass lined, with nickel silver bolsters and shield. From the factory, it would have been cleaned inside, with a crocus finish on the mark side of the large blade.

The pattern number should be 2424?. The "2" represents a 2-bladed knife, the "42" represents the pattern or style of the knife. The last "4" represents the type of handle material, in this case celluloid.

Now, the question mark usually inicates the color of the celluloid. I find no reference to "butter and molasses" in the color chart of my Catalog "E", but we have all come to use that term. In the absence of that choice, I'm going to say the question mark will either remain blank, or I might put a "K" in there, which is the "brown lined cream". But I agree, it definitely look like B&M.

The tang stamp as described should put that knife between 1917-1946.

I always loved cell handles, although they are a little suspect on stability. You may choose to leave it like it is for sentimental reasons, but a knife like that might make a nice restoration project. There are some good knife tinkerers we know who could do a nice job on this, and they might have some old blades that would work with that.

Regardless, if it belonged to Gramps, then it is priceless...

Glenn

 

[Codger_64]

The Schrade Cutlery Co. tang-stamped knives did not usually carry any kind of pattern stamp on the knife. So you have to go by the look and description of the knife for an I.D.

Your knife looks like an Equal End slim pattern jack knife, 3 1/8" long (closed), brass lined, with nickel silver bolsters and shield. From the factory, it would have been cleaned inside, with a crocus finish on the mark side of the large blade.

The pattern number should be 2424?. The "2" represents a 2-bladed knife, the "42" represents the pattern or style of the knife. The last "4" represents the type of handle material, in this case celluloid.

Now, the question mark usually inicates the color of the celluloid. I find no reference to "butter and molasses" in the color chart of my Catalog "E", but we have all come to use that term. In the absence of that choice, I'm going to say the question mark will either remain blank, or I might put a "K" in there, which is the "brown lined cream". But I agree, it definitely look like B&M.

Correct that "Butter and molasses" is a modern collector's term. "Mottled Brown Horn Celluloid", " Brown Lined Cream Pyraline" are the older terms. "K-Horn Plastic" came later. "K" was the Schrade Cut Co designation.

"2" represents a two blade knife with both blades on the same end. A jack. "7" represents a two blade knife with blades on opposite ends. The nearest I see of this knife in the Schrade Walden catalogs dates from 1947, 7424 3/4YB. The later number used was 760 circa 1951. 42 by the way, is their code for Senator pattern. The fraction 3/4 refers to the main blade, i.e. the "pocket blade" style being a clip point blade.

Michael

 

[IVANKERLEY]

The Schrade Cutlery Co. tang-stamped knives did not usually carry any kind of pattern stamp on the knife. So you have to go by the look and description of the knife for an I.D.

Your knife looks like an Equal End slim pattern jack knife, 3 1/8" long (closed), brass lined, with nickel silver bolsters and shield. From the factory, it would have been cleaned inside, with a crocus finish on the mark side of the large blade.

The pattern number should be 2424?. The "2" represents a 2-bladed knife, the "42" represents the pattern or style of the knife. The last "4" represents the type of handle material, in this case celluloid.

Now, the question mark usually inicates the color of the celluloid. I find no reference to "butter and molasses" in the color chart of my Catalog "E", but we have all come to use that term. In the absence of that choice, I'm going to say the question mark will either remain blank, or I might put a "K" in there, which is the "brown lined cream". But I agree, it definitely look like B&M.

The tang stamp as described should put that knife between 1917-1946.

I always loved cell handles, although they are a little suspect on stability. You may choose to leave it like it is for sentimental reasons, but a knife like that might make a nice restoration project. There are some good knife tinkerers we know who could do a nice job on this, and they might have some old blades that would work with that.

Regardless, if it belonged to Gramps, then it is priceless...

Glenn

Priceless indeed, if it wasnt for his knives my little collection would be rather pathetic Well i was afraid to even suggest a rebuild, but if ya have any links contact info, etc it would be appreciated. Im sure that it wouldnt be cheap but worth a look!
thanks for the help
ivan

 

[IVANKERLEY]

Correct that "Butter and molasses" is a modern collector's term. "Mottled Brown Horn Celluloid", " Brown Lined Cream Pyraline" are the older terms. "K-Horn Plastic" came later. "K" was the Schrade Cut Co designation.

"2" represents a two blade knife with both blades on the same end. A jack. "7" represents a two blade knife with blades on opposite ends. The nearest I see of this knife in the Schrade Walden catalogs dates from 1947, 7424 3/4YB. The later number used was 760 circa 1951. 42 by the way, is their code for Senator pattern. The fraction 3/4 refers to the main blade, i.e. the "pocket blade" style being a clip point blade.

Michael

Michael,
dont know how you guys do it, you people are amazing what do you think about using it for a rebuild, tinker project? It will never be sold either way, that much i can guarantee!
thanks
ivan

 

[Codger_64]

A tinker project? Rebuild? Nah. It earned every scratch, chip and thinning of the blades. It rode in the pocket and worked in the hands of someone you have memories of. I wouldn't alter it beyond a gentle cleaning and mineral oil then put it up for display with a picture of Gramps, maybe with a signature from an old letter or check. It is a Heritage knife. But it is yours to do with as you wish.

Michael

 

[glennbad]

"2" represents a two blade knife with both blades on the same end. A jack. "7" represents a two blade knife with blades on opposite ends. The nearest I see of this knife in the Schrade Walden catalogs dates from 1947, 7424 3/4YB. The later number used was 760 circa 1951. 42 by the way, is their code for Senator pattern. The fraction 3/4 refers to the main blade, i.e. the "pocket blade" style being a clip point blade.

Michael

Brilliant as usual, Mike...

I would argue that it is a 2424, however. Ivan states that both blades open from the same end, which would make it a match for this:

What is the definition of the "senator" pattern, anyway? Obviously, it has to do with blade placement and handle shape.

BTW, it is very easy for me to open up one catalog and look at a picture. You, Mike, are in the trenches digging up all the morsels of history, and doing a great job of it.

Thanks,
Glenn

 

[Codger_64]

My bad, Glenn. I missed that in his description. You are paying better attention than I, and using your resource better!

Senator? Dunno. Look at the features of the knives SCC declared to be Senator vs. Jack and all of the other terms.

 

[schattdaddy]

it looks like from the differing pin, that the knife has already had some blade work done on it

 

[IVANKERLEY]

it looks like from the differing pin, that the knife has already had some blade work done on it

yeah thats the first thing i noticed when i got it, i have no idea when, my guess is a long long time ago, the knife was in a box with all my grandpas training manuals and army stuff from WW2, and hard telling when/how/where he got it...
ivan