Brown Bess Kukri

C

clearblue

Joined
Oct 22, 2002
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In a display case in the Lake County Historical Museum @ 317 West Main Street in Tavares, Florida--352-343 9600-Diane D. Kamp,Ed.D.,Curator, is a kukri that is labeled made for the Brown Bess Rifle.

The kukri blade is normal in construction but the tang curves up like a large shark fishing hook and is attached to a steel shaft made to fit over the end of the Brown Bess Musket which looked about like it was .75 caliber or bigger.The kukri is in excellent condition and is in the display case with a group of WWI and earlier bayonets.

If any of our Florida Kuk aficionados ever pass through Tavares which is just south of Leesburg on 441 it would be fine if a picture could be taken and posted for viewing.Picture posting is above my skill level at this time.There are two government buildings there on Main Street one is round and the other is rectangular. The museum is in the rectangular one.

The museum is in the building pictured on this webpage:
http://www.lakegovernment.com/

Here's the Museum link:
http://www.lakegovernment.com/historical.htm
 
Interesting.

A Google search
http://www.google.com/search?num=10...R+kukri+OR+khukuri+bayonet&btnG=Google+Search
led me straight to Himalayan Imports.

"This socket style bayonet khukuri was first mentioned in dispatches concerning early Gurkha Regiments (1815-1819).
Apparently they were used only on parade to distinguish the new and unique regiments of "fierce little men".
In its' 12 page booklet on the khukuri, The Gurkha Museum shows a photo of a Nepalese Guard of Honor taken between 1815 and 1837 with this bayonet attached to English 'Brown Bess' muskets, but they are also carrying their fighting khukuris in their sashes.
This particularly rare model has been faked quite a bit to the point of cutting up perfectly good OLD khukuris and original 'Tower' bayonets and joining them together. The way to spot the fake is the type of weld." -----John Powell
KuwarWeapons.jpg

bayonet1.jpg

bayonet2.jpg

From:http://www.himalayan-imports.com/faq/Historical.htm
 
Thanks ddean for the search and pics.

The kukri on display in Tavares is different that the Sothebys pics. It has a pronounced fishook curve in the tang which curves up perpendicular to the blade and attaches to the round steel shaft that fits over the barrel of the musket. The display also does not look anywhere near as sturdy as the Sotheby version and may be much shorter.

I will try to get some pictures next week and forward them to a gentleman who has volunteered to post them here for all to see.
 
ddean,

I would question the authenticity of both of the examples you have posted. The Sothebys example, and very likely the example pictured in the display case are simply old khukuries that have been destroyed to create a fantasy piece. Wilkinson-Latham made a mistake of including a picture of a fake khukuri bayonet in their otherwise excellent British Military Bayonets, and it fueled a market for these fantasy pieces.

There are three likely authentic khukuri bayonets pictured in Skennerton & Richardson's British Commonwealth Bayonets. But, those look nothing like your examples. They are relatively straight edged, with only a mild recurve, and they do not have a cho.

The khukuri bayonet is almost mythical. Many collectors believe that there never was such a beast and that all of the examples in circulation are simply faked. The three identified by Skennerton are the most likely candidates for the odd locally made bayonets issued to the state forces Nepal which were mentioned in the dispaches. However, documentation on all of these bayonets is virtually non-existent. We have better evidence on the Yetti then on these bayonets.

Given a choice I would rather invest in Yetti fur then a khukuri bayonet.

n2s
 
Still, I think the blade pictured is extraordinarily beautiful. Look how the fuller runs right to the tang. Look how graceful the curve is to the point. Look at the detail in the Sword of Shiva. Finally, notice the butterlamp mark! Maybe our kami is older than we suspected?

HI puts out wonderful, durable and lovely blades, bu I'd love to see one with this profile in person.

Stephen

BTW, Uncle Bill, I traded that Gelbu Special to my son for his old villager. Took a LOT of convincing to get him to turn it loose, nor would he trade for a 20" AK. Now I am offering him the Villager and the Kumar Karda for the Gelbu Special back. Eventually, he'll completely refuse and *then* I'll know he has the khukuri meant for him. These blades will be sharp and oiled, but not pampered.
 
I agree with some of N2's theories about these bayonets (the ones that look like kukris)being almost mythical as to their actual use. The straighter bayonets (with a yataghan blade design)are of Nepalese manufacture and feature inscriptions from various Nepalese Armouries: the foundry of the Gorkha Lion Platoon (taksar gorkha ser paltan) and another: Helper of Lord Goraknath (sri goraknath sahaya) along with that regiment's rampant lion. The drawings shown are from Skennerton&Richardson and are excellent reproductions. One of these has the East India Company mark on the retaining spring which would indicate a date as early as 1818 since this is when Baker invented this device.

I have never handled or seen these straighter bayonets (A in the picture N2 is posting), but totally trust the descriptions and provenance of them. Of the 2 styles of kukri shaped bayonets I believe that the the one shown above from Sothebys is the piece used as a purely ceremonial parade item as shown in the fuzzy photo taken of a Nepali honour guard carrying the "Brown Bess" musket. Unfortunately, the photo has not been reproduced clearly enough to show here, but I have seen the original at the Gurkha Museum and some day hope to have it scanned properly.

Picture C is from that museum and there is also the same type bayonet at the National Army Museum. Both are fantasy pieces. Picture B is from an old (1958) Golden Stae Arms catalog that described it as "a very rare socket bayonet for a Brown Bess musket and of typical kukri type used by Indian troops 15.75" (here's the heartbreaker) $17.50"
 
My goal in life is to have an example of every edged weapon in that picture! Yes, those are the bayonets I describe plus the ones in the case have scabbards. Little kids dream of toys, big kids dream of sharp toys and scabbards.

Notice the length of the two kukris compared to the koras and also the kukri on the right has no cho. It's great reference seeing a budhume and a hanshee in the same case which indicates the same time frame according to the museum's cataloging system.

The last person who was in the Arsenal Museum in Kathmandu said the pieces are covered with layers of dust, the glass was cracked and dirty and the museum was only open 2 or 3 days a week with no set schedule. That was 2 yrs ago. Sigh:(
 
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