Bruce Voyles/Spirit of Steel (SOS)

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Big Tex

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Dec 6, 1999
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617
Bruce, the second SOS was great. It's nice to have a quality knifeshow in the Metroplex area.

I think you could double or triple the attendance if you ran an ad in the Sports section of the newspaper. I think there are lots of people that never knew there was a knifeshow in Mesquite last week.

Lots of the locals don't subscribe to the knife mags.

Just a thought.

Jim
 
The show dates are a little tough to make as well. Thursday through Saturday? I'm not sure what the factors are for the show dates but, with Friday work commitments, it is pretty hard make the first part of the show and, not really worth the drive for the last day based on past experience at other custom knife shows.
 
I was gonna let someone else bring up the show days. Most of the folks work on Thur and Fri. The best days are Sat and Sun. As it turned out, the best crowd was on Sat. Sun would have been good too.

Texans are weekend folks. lol

Take my word for it-advertise it and make it on Sat and Sun and people will come.
 
Big Tex -- I'm 100% in agreement with you. I know a number of us mentioned the need for local advertising in our feedback at the end of the show. There are several million people in the DFW metroplex. A small ad in the sports section of the two major newspapers would probably add a few thousand attendees.

All-in-all I thought it was a good show for its 2nd year. If Bruce would place a small ad (all it would have to say is Knife Show, the date, time, & location) and consider changing the show to Fri, Sat, Sun I think attendence would be huge next year.

Just my $.02.

John Ownby
John C. Ownby Handmade Knives
 
I enjoyed the SoS show very much. Met lots of great people and bought a couple of really cool knives. The auction thursday night was fun because I got to handle knives by legendary makers that I probably never would have had a chance to see any where else.

As far as advertising the show. There was a small ad in the Dallas Morning News sports section either thurday or friday that gave half-off admission by bringing the add to the door. I was disapointed that there was no mention in the weekly Outdoor page in the sports section. They have have listings of events that would be interesting to hunters that is free to list in. The Guide in friday's paper also has a free listing for events but the show was not in there either.

I did not attend last years show. But attendance seemed pretty lively saturday. Thursday was pretty slow, but that is to be expected.
 
I guess I missed the ad in the Sports section along with the other million folks. Take my word, if you properly advertise the event, you will get the crowd.. The Metroplex has some folks that like knives.
 
I doubt if I will return next year. I have several problems with the way this show was managed and promoted.

In my opinion, there was very little local advertising. I flew down to Texas on Tuesday. I never saw any ads. Maybe I just missed them. It looked to me, like a LOT of people missed seeing those ads.

Thursday is not a good day for the show. I also have a REAL problem with the auction. What it amounts to is, they take our money for the table, then they run an auction to compete for our knife sales. They need to either put on a knife show, or an auction.

Stay Safe,
A.T.
 
AT,

I agree with you the show was slow. Thursday is a waste. I suspect that next year the show will either be a Friday/Saturday (my vote) or Saturday/Sunday.

I doubt it will be a 3 day show.

As for the auction, it didn't do as much damage to the show as you would think. There were only 88 Knives. 8 of those were factory. Of the remaining 80 dealers bought probably 50 of those (maybe more).

Another 5-8 were bought by people who submitted bids before the show who did not attend the show.

Another couple were sold to guys on the phone.

This year the auction had little or no impact on the show.

As for advertising, it helps the gate more than anything. Lets face it for the prices of the knives we sell, how many buyers do you think we are going to get from the "walk in" traffic.

Our customers for the most part, new about the show from one of the magazines. Local advertising does little or nothing to bring in high dollar custom knife buyers. That is not to say that there is not a chance that that one person who comes through the door will not fall in love with a custom knife and purchase their first one.

As for putting on and promoting a show Bruce is one of the best. He has a huge task in front of him. Balance all aspects of knives in one show. Put the show on a date that does not conflict with something major in Dallas. Continue to bring in quality makers and dealers, keep prices low and advertising up.

Having promoted a few shows, I can tell you, Bruce needs to raise the price of his tables. This is where the Advertising revenue comes from. The problem is, make it to high and he will lose many of the factory knife sellers. Don't make it high enough and he will lose the custom knife makers, because they feel he is not doing enough to promote the show.

Bruce is in a tough position. But he has been there before.
 
...If there is anything that I enjoy more than debating topics that I know nothing about, with people I don't know, it's...Well, it just doesn't come to mind this minute...

So, in keeping with that thread, and with the intent of debating Les here...whom I don't know, and whom I agree with maybe, just maybe, 50% of the time...I've got to say this.

And remember now, I have no idea what I'm talking about here folks... ;)

"Les, ya gotta quit smoking what you're selling!"

From the top..."Thursday/Friday" show's Suck for the general working class knife "poor" uninitiated (paraphrased)... Truer words have never been spoken...and we have no disagreement there...if that's what you ment to say...

Auctions...if they're going to survive, they depend on the "people", i.e. the general population...and Thur/Fri auctions don't lend themselves to the "Average Joe"...

Mark may words here Les, and if you haven't already started a "The good book of "stuff" cuz Mel said so", now would be a good time to start...

Your response to A.T. started with a "I agree with you", and then you disagreed with every damn thing he said...WTF is up with that? Were you being condescending, rude, or just plain clueless?

Curiosity is my reason for asking, just being curious...and your response to A. T. seemed kinda weird is all...

Foot traffic? You discount foot traffic now? After all the effort that ALL of the manufacturers, publishers, resellers, and makers have made to get the word out about the quality and pricing of their products...you write off the "common" man?

Les! It's bad form to discount the hand that MAY grow up to feed you in the future...provided that you're still in the business.

Local advertising? It's everything bud. Local foot traffic not only produces (some) sales...but it also awaken's the public to what they can expect to purchase, and what the can expect to pay...

Sounds to me like you just don't want to deal with the "common" man Les...again, that's major bad form, and shows a total lack of understanding on how to grow your business...

For the record guys...your client base is very limited. It's time to widen the net, fertilize, plant next years crop, tend the harvest, etc...kapish?

"Times they are a' changin'" folks... Believe me guys, I've got much more to type on this subject from the "common" man's perspective... but "Brother's in Arm's" is on...

So, more on this topic later...bank on it. ;)

*Hugs and Kisses*
 
Hi Mel,

It was good to see you at BAKCA! Sad to hear that you were sick. :( What a drag!

I appreciate your position about the "common man" as it seemed that many who came to BAKCA were walk-ins, though I know Randy (nifrand) is also a wizzard at public relations. ;) When the dust settles, I'm curious to see the break down of the attendees - should be some interesting statistics. You know you have a hot show when people are still paying to go in at 4pm and the show closes at 5pm! That got me shaking my head...

But I also know Les has said more than one time that the internet is changing knife buying/selling like never before. Had dinner with an extremely talented maker and we got to talking about his show schedule. Though he is committed to going (he said he will be in New York next month), he also says that he's been studying - as much as he can - the whole phenomenon of Bladeforums to help him gauge buyers. He really likes the fact that we can now track the number of views. As an example, he said that he made his first post in the "For Sale by Knifemaker" forum not too long ago, and has counted 19 responses and over 1200 views. The knife sold the same night he posted, but he had many inquiries and ended up taking 15 orders via email alone. Doing some quick math here, that's ~ 15/1200 or ~ 1/80, meaning he received 1 order per every 80 views. If he sold each knife for ~ $150, he'd make about $2,250 from 15 orders. This is just under one week.

At BAKCA he said he did well, selling a really beautiful piece with a triple grind stjames keeps raving about :D and took two orders on Saturday. Given this, I asked him why he would still go to shows when he could probably rely on the internet for the most part. He told me he feels he still needs to put a face to his name so he would continue running the show circuit for a while. He is definitely one to watch!

As for this "common man," I went to pick up my orders for Tom Mayo, to see friends and to support BAKCA. Shows do give you a chance to look at merchandise up front, but I can see how this kind of environment can be a totally frustrating experience especially for makers who don't have "Ken Onion" or even "Strider" associated with their names. I really do admire makers who make knifemaking their sole source of income.

On the other hand, one great benefit was that when my wife came with me, she got to meet makers first hand, hold their work, and hear them explain to her how they made their pieces and what went into making them. She came away with a better appreciation for knifemaking and for this "hobby" of mine. On the way back home, she asked me why I didn't get anything more "artsy," that is, something embedded with rare stones or with nice wood or bone handles. When I told her the prices for what some of those pieces could command she became thoughtful, then asked "Why don't you start making knives and selling them?" :rolleyes:

Gentlemen and women, that IS progress.

-Jerome
 
Jerome,

Thanks for your kind words!

A few disjointed odd thoughts here...please bear with me.

The first, and you're gonna love this one...I pride myself with my ability to remember names, and to link them with faces...last night, around midnight...I leaned over and woke my wife with a light touch..."Honey, the tall fellow that you were talking with at Tom Mayo's table...I've forgotten his name...

In her sleep..."The place that you took me in Arizona, the town high on the hill where you bought the Copper colored shirt for your mom..."

"Jerome, right, Jerome" sez I..."G'night honey" she said as she drifted off to sleep again...So Jerome, you're officialy "imprinted" now...lol

A little history, just cuz...

I was, and am, a "Gun guy"...knives were, and are, a distant second...

My best buddy, former boss, hunting partner, shooting partner, best man, and all around good guy Keith Brown, deceased, was a "knife guy"

Keith had a small knife resale business on the side...

Keith left me his estate executor, and sole beneficiary, some two years past...Edna and I opted to sell the knives Keith had bought to sell, and use the money to buy the knives that Keith was collecting....as a tribute to our friend, in his memory.

Keith collected Al Mar SERE's, Applegate/Fairbairn Daggers, and Randall Fixed blades.

So now, we have a few of each of those, truthfully, better collections of the various models of the knives mentioned than any we've seen.

Along the way we've made a few mistakes, made a few good trades, and our tastes have developed.

My wife finds that she likes knives by Horn and Lake, with a few RMK mini's and Loveless integrals thrown in, and I'm finding that Integral Boot/Chute/Sub-hilts strike my fancy...

What does all of this mean? Not a damn thing...other than the fact that a "common man" and his wife can "stumble" into knives, and the knife community...and find a "common" interest that can bind them even closer.

I don't want to talk dollars here, because I think that would be very inappropriate; but to even suggest that it takes years of "understanding" for a person or persons to "get it", shows that the person making said suggestion in fact is the person that doesn't "get it".....get it? ;)

Sure, we put together a "to die for" library of knife books going back to '58, but if you don't know your knife "history", then you really don't know what you're doing...right?

I dunno, we still have a lot of learning to do...but our education to date wasn't inexpensive, nor easily won, so why not put it to work...right? :)

Anyhoo, I digress. Jerome, nice to see you again, and looking forward to many more meetings again in the future.

Also, the library is open...all we ask for is collateral. (Mayo's work well for collateral...lol).

In summary, we're rather new to this, our tastes are rather unrefined, we're still stumbling, (hell, we didn't know that Randy was the pres. of BAKCA until the night before the show...lol), we were there uncoerced, as part of our "learning" process, we can spot a "wannabe" BS'er from a mile away whether it be houses, cars, or knives...and lastly, most importantly....glad to hear your wife is supportive J!

----enough, my one good typing finger is getting sore. Screw the spell checker, the mistakes are mine---
 
Originally posted by Les Robertson

As for advertising, it helps the gate more than anything. Lets face it for the prices of the knives we sell, how many buyers do you think we are going to get from the "walk in" traffic.

Our customers for the most part, new about the show from one of the magazines. Local advertising does little or nothing to bring in high dollar custom knife buyers. That is not to say that there is not a chance that that one person who comes through the door will not fall in love with a custom knife and purchase their first one.
Click to expand...

I feel this kind of thinking is what is wrong with us now. We are still trying to sell our knives to the same people. We need to find and educate the person that has never seen or heard of a custom knife. With more makers selling knives to the same people, who really wins?

I think that Zig Zigler came up with this.

"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"

Stay Safe,
A.T.
 
A T, the Zigler quote is a classic.

You guys will never convince me that local advertising is not required for a successful show. If people don't know about the show, they sure won't buy anything. Whether they will spend the $ for a custom knife?-who knows, but they might.

We have 2 major gunshows, one in Dallas, and the other in Mesquite, and both of them run small block ads in the newspaper (sports section) and they bring in good crowds.

Bottom Line-you either advertise it or forget about it.
 
I agree. Advertising is important.

Two years ago I was unaware there was a custom knife industry. I had heard of Randalls but had never seen a custom knife.

My "primary" hobby is flyfishing and I was tired of the inexpensive case and buck knives I had always used. Had picked up a couple of benchmades and was looking for another blade when I saw an ad in the paper for a gun/ knife show. To be honest I went to the show in the hopes of finding another benchmade at a discount (all the local places are "full price"). Ended up buying a Chris Reeve on an impulse (went to the show to save a few bucks, ended up spending three times as much! :) ). From that purchase I went to the CRK website were there were links to BF and KF. The rest is history, now I am a die-hard custom knife guy.

I might have eventually ended up this way anyway, but it was that show that got me started. Most sportsman I know have no idea there is such a thing as a custom knife and I suspect quite a few of them would buy one if they knew they existed.

In my mind, to really appreciate a custom knife one has to handle one and shows provide a great opportunity to do so. Advertising in the knife trade magazines is important but is probably not enough (Blade only has 25K subscribers or so). Local advertising has a role but perhaps advertising in other sporting publications may also be of help (the duck hunting and flyfishing crowd tend to buy quality).
 
Before I get too far into this I just want to make one point. I have handled the advertising for the Knifemaker Guild show in the past, I have handled the advertising for The Blade Show in the past, and now I'm handling the advertising for the Spirit of Steel Show.

For the year 2001 ONLY the Knifemakers Guild show and The Blade Show spend MORE money on local advertising (or advertising overall) than the Spirit of Steel Show.

I for certain believe in a lot of advertising.

Just for reference, and as indicated in the info sheet given out with every SOS show exhibitor's packet (which very few read)...

We did advertise the show. Specifically we ran 64 (sixty-four) 30-second television commericals in the Dallas area. We had a copy of it which we played over the intercom at the show twice and which we showed to anyone interested in the show several times.

We did run display ads in the Dallas Morning News. We based the size and style on that of successful gun shows in the Dallas area. Specifically in the Sports Section--and for three weeks prior to the show in the gun section of the classified section, which is where the majority of the gun shows do much of their advertising.

We did, via the Texas Press Association, mail a long show announcement/press release to EVERY newspaper in the state of Texas. We cannot make them run press releases or put us in their upcoming events calender. (Last year the Dallas Morning News did give us a fair amount of ink).

Just because someone personally doesn't see the ad doesn't mean there wasn't enough advertising for the show. The cost of advertising in the Dallas area is extremely expensive.

The second SOS show is as big or bigger than the second Blade Show, in attendance and in size. I know because I put them both on.

We're not going to have the worlds biggest most unbelieveable spectacular show in two years... It takes time. It takes knifemakers to support us. It takes work. We have every intention of rewarding those who stick with us.

One thing is for sure, if you don't enjoy the show, if you don't think it is worthwhile, if you don't want to be in on the start of something that could grow--well just don't come back. For certain it is hard to have a good time at a show with a lot of people who don't want to be there. And if there is one thing we do want to do at the SOS is to have a good time--and hopefully a part of that is to have time to socialize with each other. (Although on Thursday of this year we had more time for that than we envisioned).

We've surveyed the show exhibitors and will repond to the wishes of those show exhibitiors. Our original plan with a Thursday, Friday, Saturday show came about because most of us on a Sunday show simply stare at each other waiting for the show to end. We attended Beinfield's Vegas Antique Arms Shows which were Thursday, Friday, and Saturday and they worked quite well. (We blatantly steal ideas from the best when we can). The NKCA shows we attend usually has every come into the hotels on Thursday, and set up at 8 a.m. on Friday, and again drum our fingers on the table waiting for the show to end on Sunday. We thought the show attendees might appreciate having a full day to travel home. We were obviously wrong on that. That happens a lot if you like to always try a lot of new things. But the key to it is how long it takes us to realize we were wrong and make the changes. You can expect a Friday, Saturday, Sunday show next year if it is all possible.

And my final point--I set-up as an exhibitor at more knife shows than almost any show promoter in America. And I set-up at my own show too. If things go wrong for exhibitors they are also going wrong for me, and I will do what it takes to correct it if I can.

Bruce Voyles, show host of the Knives Illustrated Spirit of Steel Show.
 
Bruce, since I started this thread, then I will respond to your post. I watch tv alot and I never saw one commercial on the show. What channel were they on?

I checked the Sports section of the paper on Tuesday and Wednesday before the show and never saw a block ad. I heard that it was in the classified section (guns section) of the paper but I don't think that's the place to advertise your show.

We would love to see the show turn into another Bladeshow and personally, I think the Metromess folks could do that. You build it and the folks will come.
 
One thing that would be helpful is the correct posting of the show hours. Absolutely no information on the show hours were ever posted on the website.

Several of my customers asked me for that information. I emailed and asked for them. The reply I got was "Show hours are 2 to 7 on Thursday, 9-6 on Friday 9-5 on Saturday" Those hours were incorrect for Thursday and Friday.

When I checked in, I was handed show information. The show hours in those two sheets were different. This not only confused me, it caused confusion for our Customers.

Stay Safe,
A.T.
 
If you check on my site right now www.jbrucevoyles.com (Monday afternoon) ...as it hasn't been updated yet, you will see the hours posted for the show. They have been there for a while. Get it right boys!

As for ads in the classified section, as we gave a discount for those who brought the ad in--I can tell you with absolute certainity it was indeed the place to place the advertising in Dallas. I have the proof in our stack of clipped ads.

The display ads in the sport section ran, as I recall, on the Sunday preceeding (which is a much larger circulation than any other day, and Thursday). Cost of the two ads was right at $3000.00. We did not get 1000 people bringing their ads in (1/2 price the $6.00 admission with the display ad)-- but we ran the ads there anyway just in case.

The television ads ran in a variety of places which I'm not going to get into here, simply because I had a good friend with 35 years as a television executive (and still in the business) place the ads--a job he did for both me and also for Krause after they bought the Blade Show. I'm not going to second guess him based on his past successes in doing that job for me. (And compared with last year's show something did allow the attendance to grow dramatically).

I'm posting this to demonstrate that we work on putting the SOS show in a professional manner--and in most instances using professional people with experience in putting on knife shows--big knife shows--that is unequalled.

The place to express your displeasure about the show was on the questionnaire we passed out at the show.

So far in this thread I've read several times we didn't run display ads--which we did. We didn't post hours on the site--which we did. And while I do value everyone's opinions there are segements of putting on a knife in which I do feel we do know what we are doing.

I don't want to belabor this futher here. Got something to say to me email me direct at bruce@jbrucevoyles.com.

Bruce Voyles
 
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