Buck 425M

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csmats

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Dec 31, 2015
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I have a 1987 Buck 309 that I was told here at Blade Forums uses 425M stainless steel. I've had trouble getting it as sharp as my 1979 Case 62042 SS or my 2014 309 and the 1987 309 won't hold an edge even though I only use it at work to open envelopes mostly and occasionally to open small cardboard boxes and cut string/twine.

I use the same sharpening method as I use on the other two knives (and many others with different steels), which is Sharpmaker at 30 degrees compound (only once so far for both 309's since they're both new to me and about once every few years or so for the 62042) and stropping on an old leather belt with Flitz every so often throughout the year.

Because of the trouble I've had with the 1987 309 someone here suggested the 40 degree compound micro-bevel option on the Sharpmaker and that seemed to get better results, but then I still have the problem that it won't hold an edge even with ultra-light office duty that the other two knives handle with ease.

I found a thread here from around June 2005 about Buck's 425M and 420HC and a guy named Joe Houser, Director of Consumer Relations for Buck Knives, said the following:

"They can both be sharpened the same way and unless you have an older knife with a different edge geometry, ease of sharpening should be identical."

Questions:
1. Does my 1987 309 fit into Mr. Houser's definition of "an older knife with a different edge geometry"?
2. If it does fit the definition, does he mean it'll just be harder to sharpen using the same methods or does a different sharpening method have to be used?
3. If it doesn't fit the definition, can anyone point me in the right direction as to what I might be doing wrong?

Again, I have no trouble whatsoever using my sharpening method on Case Tru-Sharp or Buck 420HC, only on this one 309 made out of 425M.
 
csmats, welcome and a good question. Yes, the older models had different edge geometry. The edge profile is thicker and the 425M steel has vanadium in it. Thus, this makes it more difficult to cut. What stone material are you using? This steel will hold it's edge about twice as long as 420HC. I suspect your not fully apexing the edge. Have you worked up a burr? Mark the edge bevel w/ a black marker to make certain your hitting the bevel. Then grind longer to create a burr. Flip it over and remove the burr. Then grind on that side and create a burr and remove it. It sounds like your not fully removing the burr. Thus, it feels sharp but dulls quick. DM
 
Thanks very much for the info, David. The Spyderco Sharpmaker manual says the stones (triangular rods) are "High Alumina Ceramic". It came with two types -- medium (grey-brown) and fine (white). They don't give grit number.

The info you provided is very interesting because when I first asked about my problem here at Blade Forums I was cautioned not to sharpen longer than my other knives because it would wear the blades down more than necessary. I was also advised and to try the micro-bevel (the Sharpmaker has two settings -- 30 degrees compound and 40 degrees compound -- so to do the micro-bevel you start with 30 degrees compound and then put on a 40 degrees compound secondary bevel), which I tried as described above.

I'll try the method you advise, but it seems like it would work better with flat stones (I have a set of old Buck natural stones from the 70s, one medium and one fine). Is my problem the result of just flipping the burr over to one side and then the other without removing it, in which case I'm not really taking steel off the blade?
 
Follow David's advice, then use a strop with green compound last to remove the burr. OH
Ps I keep my Buck 425M blades sharp using Steamboat ceramic sticks (Medium, followed by Fine) - I can easily clean three whitetail deer without having to go back to the sticks - the 425M works that good. I just bought an early Buck 118 with 420HC steel (1994 model), will let you know next season if it lasts as long.
 
I'm only somewhat familiar with the Sharpmaker. So, if I understand what you're meaning. Then yes. Use the medium grit. It will be slow going as that stone is around 600 grit. Something like a 2-300 grit is the one to use to remove enough metal and work up a burr. I would not use the Arkansas as natural stones will have a hard time cutting that steel. To compliment your sharpening stones pick up a combination coarse/ fine crystalline or India stone at your local hardware store 2X6''. There only 10$ and this will greatly speed things up when working up a burr. One can read anything on the internet in these Forums. I am familiar with that model and steel and trying to give you the skinny on it. IF this info is not accurate others will chime in and correct me. Work slow and watch your edge angle. Keep reporting on your progress. I work and may not can get you an answer quickly but others will step in and help you. So stick with us. Good luck, DM
 
Yes, but like David said, first mark your blade edge with a Sharpie so you can see if you are actually sharpening the edge.
 
If you like the Spyderco Sharpmaker system, be aware that they also make triangular diamond hones. These remove metal much faster. Then you move to the gray medium rods (triangle edge first, then triangle flat), and finally to the white fine rods (edge first, then flats). Once you get it sharp, you should only need to touch up with the flats of the white rods.

In the old days, diamond sleeves were included with the kit. Now, they are triangles that need to be purchased separately. You will probably need to order them online, as they are hard to find in a regular cutlery shop.

--Larry
 
Thanks everyone. I like the Sharpmaker so I'll look for the diamond triangle rods for it. My dad has an old A.G. Russell lockback w/black rucarta handle in ATS-34 that I couldn't budge using the medium rods so it sounds like I need the diamond rods anyway. I'll make sure to mark the edges with a sharpie and go slow because you can take steel off but you can't put it back on.
 
I have a buck 503 with 425m steel that I cannot seem to find an edge profile that will stay sharp. Sharpen it one morning, takes the hair off my arm with ease, use it to cut open a hay bail( 2 cuts on bailing twine) and the region of the blade that did the work is just about blunt, no sign of any sharpness left. I have had this knife for about 20 years and it has NEVER held an edge for more than a few cuts.

420hc seems to hold better to me, and the old 440c holds a much better edge. Maybe there is bad heat treat on it. I've relegated that knife to cutting up fish food.

As an aside, there isnt enough vanadium in 425m to make any carbides, its there just to refine the grain structure a little.
 
There is not much difference in elements between 420HC and 425M. Other than + 1% cr and +1% Mo both very important pluses for 425. But you say you get better results from 420.? Which makes me scratch my head. I've not experienced the malady you two state with 425. But other causes are possible and heat treatment would be the last piece of the pie I'd point a finger at with Buck. Still, in my experience 425 takes more work to sharpen than 420 and I own several knives of different brands with 420 blades and these sharpen the same. But not 425. Both of these 2 steels were chosen because of it's fine blanking properties. Not for it's edge holding abilities. DM
 
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I've only got a few buc
Ck knives with 425 m and so far it's treated me great,both in ease of sharpening and performance on big game feild dressing chores.i sharpen mine by hand on diamond stones and finish on a leather strop.
 
I think using diamonds is a good approach with this steel. As I have sharpened it on a fine India stone and removing the burr was so difficult I had to take it to a coarse diamond stone in order to get it done. So, the type of grit matters. DM
 
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