Buck 444 dullness

N

newtype

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Feb 1, 2017
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I picked this knife up a few months ago secondhand and was looking forward to using it. However, I found out very quickly that it was incredibly difficult to take a decent edge and dulled to the point of unusable from typical use in just a few days.
Is this normal of this particular model? I am by no means an expert knife sharpener, but I have never ran into this issue with any of my other blades.

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Newtype, welcome to the Buck forum. Not an experienced knife sharpener myself, I can say the your knife blade is made of 420HC which should have good resharpenability characteristic. Other people who hang out here such as David Martin are knowledgable on the subject of you question and hopefully will drop in. The 'U' after 444 on your blade indicates the knife was made in 1998 (date corrected).
 
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new, welcome to the Buck Forum. That steel should hold an edge longer than that. It sounds like the edge is not fully apexed. Or it has a burr. What stone are you using?
Thanks, Desoto. DM
 
A few things to mention about your problem with the steel...

*As David mention already a burr might have formed when sharpening which is easily fixable

*Looking at your production year tang stamp (which is from 1998) this knife is before the Edge 2X geometry by Buck Knives...which started in 1999.The thinner bevel width of Buck's old edge geometry gave only fair results sharpening freehand.In short profile the edge to a narrower angle or send it to Buck to grind the Edge 2X over the old edge.
 
Humm. My wife's Selector has a + stamp which has the thinner profile. I have a Bucklite with a / 1994 stamp. Which is much thinner. So, Buck was doing some blade profile adjustments well before 1999. Yes, that was the 'Official' date from Buck. To me his blade looked to be of a decent profile. Still, a good thought. DM
 
David Martin said:
Humm. My wife's Selector has a + stamp which has the thinner profile. I have a Bucklite with a / 1994 stamp. Which is much thinner. So, Buck was doing some blade profile adjustments well before 1999. Yes, that was the 'Official' date from Buck. To me his blade looked to be of a decent profile. Still, a good thought. DM
Click to expand...

Before 99 we really had no standard on sharpening or techniques used, so you will see a wide variety in the field fromthose time periods. It was all dependent on who edged it.

Jeff
 
Also a lot of people think everything by Buck is hollow ground to a fine edge...not entirely true.My old 885 TacLite of course has the Edge 2X but it has a thick edge...seems to be a sabre grind.Yet the blade is no thicker than I'd say the 112 Ranger.The Buck/Strider collaborations are another example as they have very thick blades and seem to be hollow ground...but have a thick edge which makes them seem to be the result of a sabre grind.I've seen this sabre grind result on knives like Bucklite MAX,Access 3.0 (can't remember the model#),and Revolution (revolving knife from the Whittaker Series).
 
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I had one of these and enjoyed its light weight and size. It fits in a jeans watch pocket. I tied some leather and a fake Indian bone bead on it for easy removal.
I found three more at a flea market and bought them all. I alternate these with my small Vantages for edc. I have quit watching for sale Vantages as the pocket clip ends have scratched my wife's chairs that she allows me to sit on. The 444 does not....ha Mine seems to do fine and as David knows I use the two rod v rod sharpener for all my sharpening. I cut up boxes and some other light duty stuff, and use a razor knife for any heavy duty cutting. I remember one person complaining his 110 would get dull after only one day of cutting asphalt shingles on his roofing job. I sharpen them a little more 'toothy' than my Vantages or 300s. I know I will hear some Amen's on this but even toothy edged I still strop on leather that has had lots of Mothers Wheel polished rubbed in. As stated from the long ago past till now, you get your first edge angle correct and it will stay sharp and re-sharpen easy for a long long time.

These four triple fours should last me till the cows come home. 300Bucks
 
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J Hubbard said:
Before 99 we really had no standard on sharpening or techniques used, so you will see a wide variety in the field fromthose time periods. It was all dependent on who edged it.

Jeff
Click to expand...

very interesting and good info, Sirs . thank you both. appreciated.
 
Jeff, thanks. There is now supposed to be a standard. Ok. On Sharpening or edge profile? As this topic has now morphed into 2 different areas. As, I kind of went with Frontier for a comment. One affects sharpness, the other the Way it cuts. So, before we get off the original subject (like we at times do) I want to stay on new's subject. I'll grant part of his concern could be affected by blade thickness. New, what is your method of sharpening? Are you working up a burr? Thanks, DM
 
Jeff, I like that Buck now sharpens most (the ones I've seen) blades toward a coarse edge at time of leaving the factory. This is good as it allows the owner to then take it to the edge he or she desires. DM
 
First, thank you all for the information regarding these Bucks.
David, i mainly utilize a worksharp field sharpener and do work up a burr.
Perhaps my method is wrong for this particular knife? What angle should I sharpen it on?



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We use a 13-16 deg (26-32 deg included) per side edge on our everyday knives. This give us a very good initial sharpness and edge retention. This is regardless of starting blade edge thickness although we have starting standards depending on which edge style we will be using.. It just end up with a higher or lower edge line. Tactical (20-23 deg.per side) and fishing (10-13 deg per side) are different angles. The choices we make on which configuration to use depends on the knife's intended use.

It is important to note that for us edging and sharpening are 2 different things.
Edging puts on the angles and raises the burr.
Sharpening is the burr removal (stropping) process.
We don't use a polished edge anymore as we found that we were making the edge round instead of flat and thus you have to remove the roundness before the sharpening process can begin. Thus the thgouths in consumers minds that our blades were hard to sharpen in the old days.

Jeff
 
You should take Jeff's advice, about 15 degrees per side is perfect.

I'm not a master knife sharpener so take this with a grain of salt. In my experience lower angles reduce the negative effects of a burr. Also, make sure the burr is worked off completely with a finer stone, as the deformation is fatigued metal and can break off and leave a flat spot on the edge. When finishing don't sharpen too aggressively on one side, you want to prevent formation of a new burr.
 
Thanks, Jeff.
New, keep working the knife's edge a little longer on the stone. Perhaps it was not fully apexed. Agreed you can remove the burr on the final stone. Or by stropping. DM
 
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