Buck 651 vs Buck 120 vs BK7 vs BK9

Lawrence Helm · Oct 22, 2015

I just today acquired a Buck 651 "Pig Sticker." (knife 213 of 250) I am very happy with the flat-bladed versions of the 120 for hiking purpose, but I was interested in the 651. It seemed more formidable. Perhaps on occasion I would take this one hiking as well -- alas no. It is indeed formidable, but the sheath isn't appropriate for routine hiking. Also, in trying it out the clasp that holds the 651 in place became stuck and as I fiddled with it to get it out from under the knife I sliced my thumb a bit (not seriously). My fault of course, but this was a test The knife will get hung up on occasion -- don't try to break it loose by feel.

The 651 is just slightly longer than the Becker BK7 and significantly shorter than the BK9. The Becker knives are first-class bushcraft knives (according to countless testimonials on the Becker forum and on Youtube). I'm not a bushcrafter but if I was I would prefer the Becker knives to the 651.

The 651 has fullers, blood groves, although why it does escapes me.

The handle was touted in an earlier discussion (since closed I think) of the 651 as being less slippery than the Buck 120 and 124. I haven't put that feature to the test either, but that sounds right. My complaint about the handle is that the plastic surrounding the soft-material that provides the better grip strikes me as easily chipped, cracked or shattered. If that is true then it is probably daintier than any of the other knives' handles mentioned here.

Maybe there is some evidence that this plastic is sturdier than it looks. My copy has some plastic that wasn't scraped off properly near the blade.

Having said all that, this knife is after all a limited run, only 250 in it. However, one of the stories states that some Australians designed it for use and many more than 250 were made for them. They thought it was wonderful and I can kind of see their point of view. If they were carrying it in some fashion so that the sheath wasn't a liability and if they were indeed "sticking pigs" with it, the fragility of the plastic (if it is indeed as fragile as it looks) wouldn't be an issue and it would stick something much better than any of the other knives mentioned in this post. One can see the 651 in earlier posts by doing a search. You can see that the tip is somewhat dagger-like. Neither the Beckers nor the Buck 120 are like that.

I'm glad I bought it. It is an interesting knife and for the record, the 120 flat-bladed Bucks are still my favorite hiking knives. And if I want to go light I like the 105 in diamondwood or cherrywood.

Lawrence

David Martin · Oct 22, 2015

Why don't you post a photo of all of them side by side so we can try to see the point your making?
That said, many long bladed knives are loosely referred to as 'pig-stickers'. It's just a name... They may not even be suited for that task. However, I have stuck many hogs with a model 120 and I can assure you it works for that action. I've also used it camping a lot and it will work for bush craft, quartering large game and many other tasks. DM

Lawrence Helm · Oct 23, 2015

David Martin said:
Why don't you post a photo of all of them side by side so we can try to see the point your making?
That said, many long bladed knives are loosely referred to as 'pig-stickers'. It's just a name... They may not even be suited for that task. However, I have stuck many hogs with a model 120 and I can assure you it works for that action. I've also used it camping a lot and it will work for bush craft, quartering large game and many other tasks. DM

Right, I knew that was the one request always urged: post photos. I wasn't sure when I'd be able to get around to that so I mentioned that all the photos exist on this forum, the Beckers and flat-bladed (no fuller) 120s by me. Excellent photos of the 651 exist in the earlier 651 Pig Sticker posts. I would have posted my note on that thread but I noticed that it had been closed.

I'm not sure I'm making any points -- just observations and personal impressions. The 651 is called by Buck, "Nighthawk Hunter 651." The Australians if I remember correctly called it a Pig Sticker.

True, the 120 and other Bucks can be used for Bushcraft, but the Beckers, in my opinion after reading their forum and acquiring their knives are superior in that one area. Also debated from time to time is whether the KaBar USMC Fighting knife is better for modern Marines than the Becker BK7. Ethan Becker designed the BK7 as a replacement or the KaBar using the philosophy that soldiers are basically campers with guns therefore and a BK7 is a better bushcraft knife than the Kabar 1217. The military services however have ignored Ethan Becker and retained the 1217 as their official knife (the last time I checked anyway).

And I'm not saying that I couldn't hike with any of the knives I have, but I like the idea of knives for different purposes and different moods. But I am currently under the impression that the 120 flat-bladed knives are the best knife-companion for the sort of hiking I do.

Lawrence

DocT · Oct 23, 2015

That knife has a false edge, if I remember rightly. It would be great for sticking things, I think. The fuller is there to 1] lighten the blade 2] make it stronger in some aspects (I beam) 3] to look cool. Other than lightening the blade a fuller is not needed on a knife; swords, yes, short knives, no. That knife would not be a good camp knife due to design. The 120 would be better. It would, however be better at stabbing.

pinnah · Oct 23, 2015

Interesting discussion.

A lot of this hinges on different interpretations of "hiking" and "bushcraft", as well as different personal approaches to being outside.

To my understanding, the term "bushcraft" is most closely associated with Mors Kochanski's book of the same name, which popularized the term. By way of recollection, Kochanski is the guy who taught both Cody Loudin and Ray Mears. All 3 of these instructors describe a "bushcraft" knife in roughly the same terms: about 4" blade, no guard (it's not needed since it's not used for stabbing), a continuously upcurving blade line (for working wood better) and a convex or scandi grind (easy sharpening, better edge control when working wood and better wood splitting).

The Buck knife that is most in line with this description is the Buck Selkirk.

If I didn't already have enough knives like this, I would consider getting one. I wish it was made in the US, but otherwise it looks right in every way.

The Becker I hear discussed most in terms of classic bushcraft BK16.

As mentioned in somebody's post above, I think the BK7 is more of a combat utility knife. The BK9 is a big chopper. I think Buck's new chopping tool would be the competitor to the BK9.

I don't think I would consider a Buck 120 to be anything other than a very big hunting knife. The false edge, clip point and hollow grind are all suited to that, but not as well suited to bushcraft, at least not Kochanski would describe it.

As a term, I think "hiking" has a much, much, much wider definition and really, so long as people are outside in God's good creation and having a great time, any knife they carry that makes them happy is excellent. For those who define "hiking" in lightweight terms, the new Buck Apex seems ideally suited. Specifically designed for climbers and mountaineers.

David Martin · Oct 23, 2015

I guess one can read anything because right now in the General Forum discussions are going on about how the Becker knives you mention are too thick and big for woodcraft work. They are made more for malleting thru limb wood and lack the ability toward finer cutting. I know toward survival duty I'd prefer a hatchet combined with a smaller knife like a 103 or 402 Akouna. Heck I've come out of the wilderness with the hatchet and a 110 (a Buck lite)before and didn't feel under equipped. Then I've done it with a light saw and a 119 as well. IF I were going to take just a knife and there could be a chance I may use it to mallet I would give the 124 or a 120 the nod. DM

Old Hunter · Oct 23, 2015

Times change peoples perspectives, but for an interesting look back, find a copy of Everybody's Knife Bible by Don Paul; my copy of the 3rd Edition was printed in 1991 by Path Finder Publications and was bought at the PX at Fort Bragg NC. Don Paul wrote the book for the outdoorsman but from a Special Forces Soldier's perspective (including survival and woodcraft). He covered and recommended several different knives - but his knife, pictured throughout the book, was a Buck 120. OH

David Martin · Oct 23, 2015

Hunter, thanks for this info.. It is certainly telling of that model. Which I've found to be useful thru the years. DM

DocT · Oct 24, 2015

Old Hunter said:
Times change peoples perspectives, but for an interesting look back, find a copy of Everybody's Knife Bible by Don Paul; my copy of the 3rd Edition was printed in 1991 by Path Finder Publications and was bought at the PX at Fort Bragg NC. Don Paul wrote the book for the outdoorsman but from a Special Forces Soldier's perspective (including survival and woodcraft). He covered and recommended several different knives - but his knife, pictured throughout the book, was a Buck 120. OH

What I've been saying. Shoot, I used a Buck Skinner for many years in the wilderness. The 120 would/does make a great knife for these chores. A 119 might be better. I think a 124 would be a better choice than the 120, but I would not mind having either.

Most of the knives people use are too big, too thick, and only do one thing marginally well: baton. The Mora knives have been used by a lot of people for a long time as a perfect knife for outdoor use. Nessmuk used a knife with a 4.5" blade that was not heavy.

Lawrence Helm · Oct 24, 2015

David Martin said:
I guess one can read anything because right now in the General Forum discussions are going on about how the Becker knives you mention are too thick and big for woodcraft work. They are made more for malleting thru limb wood and lack the ability toward finer cutting. I know toward survival duty I'd prefer a hatchet combined with a smaller knife like a 103 or 402 Akouna. Heck I've come out of the wilderness with the hatchet and a 110 (a Buck lite)before and didn't feel under equipped. Then I've done it with a light saw and a 119 as well. IF I were going to take just a knife and there could be a chance I may use it to mallet I would give the 124 or a 120 the nod. DM

Interesting. I was on the Becker forum for a while but haven't been on the general forum. I like the big thick Becker knives but haven't enjoyed taking them on hikes. I've done it, but if one is just going to hike they represent a lot of weight for little advantage. I'm speaking here of the BK2, BK7, and BK9. The BK10 and BK12 are more suitable from my perspective. But when it comes to lighter tasks Becker has lighter knives. I bought the BK15, but I would hesitate to make a meal with one because some of the protective coating would be bound to abrade into ones meal. This past year I learned quite a bit about cooking inasmuch as my wife had a terminal disease and I had to learn a bit. Of course she already had a bunch of cooking knives and I didn't really need anything that does both bushcraft and normal cooking, but I bought a BK-5. It isn't too thick for cooking tasks, but I didn't want to keep it in the drawer with her knives and so gave up using it down stairs.

Which is to imply that most of the people on this forum won't have just one knife. Ethan Becker created the BK2 as the one knife that would do everything -- as an apocalypse-type exercise. But in all the time I was on that forum I never read him recommending that knife to anyone. He often recommended the BK16 however.

I like a lot of knives but I need to like the sheath as well to want to take it on a hike very often. I didn't like the Becker sheaths for hiking and bought custom sheaths for the knives I wanted to try hiking, and while those sheaths were preferable, they didn't ride all that well.

I mentioned in some earlier posts on this forum that I didn't like the old Buck sheath for the 120 but I do like the new ones. I was using the standard 120 in a new sheath most of the time. I did have the diamondwood 120 but the extra weight of the handle didn't seem to add any function. Maybe that is true of the flat-bladed (blades without fullers) as well but I do like them a lot and take one most often.

As someone wrote, there are all sorts of hiking. That is quite true. In recent years because of needing to be nearby in case my wife needed anything, I have been hiking in a nearby dry river bed with a lot of wilderness-type growth. The dogs run off leash and the gear I carry is for emergencies and for the remote possibility of needing to defend myself or my dogs from the occasional wild animals that come down there -- not really counting the coyotes because they have become used to us over the years.

In my younger days I recall carrying a 124 quite a lot but mostly I carried a Buck 639 -- a most versatile knife; although the back edge didn't do the wood-cutting chores I thought it might do. I also carried a Swiss Army knife with a saw-blade for light-weight branch cutting. It is hard to keep a 639 from looking disreputable and in my more-dignified old age when I want to carry a lightweight knife, I carry a diamondwood or cherrywood 105. A couple of years back I made a lot of hiking sticks and canes from fallen branches obtained at the river. The tool I found most useful for cutting those fallen (and mostly dry) branches was a Buck saw (can't remember the number). And if I was to go camping again I'd take the saw for wood-cutting tasks. I have a Buck hand-axe, but I like the saw better for wood cutting.

Lawrence

Lawrence

edbeau · Oct 24, 2015

Dave, here is a picture of the label on my Intruder/Pig Sticker.

Lawrence Helm · Oct 24, 2015

Edbeau wrote, "Dave, here is a picture of the label on my Intruder/Pig Sticker."

Strange. Mine says "213 Nighthawk Hunter, 0651TNSSVK-B," and it's dated 11/11/14. The "213" refers to my knife being 213 out of the 250 in this limited run. Fine, but why change the name?

Lawrence

Badhammer · Oct 24, 2015

There were at least three runs of the 651.

Third from the left is the latest style, fourth is the first. There was a run in between these two that may have had an all black handle but I don't recall at the moment.

edbeau · Oct 24, 2015

Hey Bad, you got that wrong. the tan one is the new one and the green/black one is the first one. Never saw an all black one.

Here is mine.

Badhammer · Oct 24, 2015

Thanks. I corrected my post. That's what I get for posting on my little tablet rather than my laptop. Just easier to do things.

There are a couple of the black handle ones on the completed listing on the bay. They were made 2013. The sheath is also different than the other two. More like the Thug sheath. It's the only other 651 model/variation I know of and don't have.

David Martin · Oct 24, 2015

ed, you are very creative with your photos. Thanks, guys for all this info. on this model. DM

Old Hunter · Oct 25, 2015

Ed, that is a fine looking knife - never see those models in stock around here (lots of Bucks, but mostly 100, 300, & 500 series and some modern folders). OH

edbeau · Oct 26, 2015

OH, picked it up off the bay when the mystery someone was selling 3 or 4 a day with a buy now price. You had to get one right away or lose out.

pinnah · Oct 28, 2015

David Martin said:
I guess one can read anything because right now in the General Forum discussions are going on about how the Becker knives you mention are too thick and big for woodcraft work. They are made more for malleting thru limb wood and lack the ability toward finer cutting. I know toward survival duty I'd prefer a hatchet combined with a smaller knife like a 103 or 402 Akouna. Heck I've come out of the wilderness with the hatchet and a 110 (a Buck lite)before and didn't feel under equipped. Then I've done it with a light saw and a 119 as well. IF I were going to take just a knife and there could be a chance I may use it to mallet I would give the 124 or a 120 the nod. DM

Old Hunter said:
Times change peoples perspectives, but for an interesting look back, find a copy of Everybody's Knife Bible by Don Paul; my copy of the 3rd Edition was printed in 1991 by Path Finder Publications and was bought at the PX at Fort Bragg NC. Don Paul wrote the book for the outdoorsman but from a Special Forces Soldier's perspective (including survival and woodcraft). He covered and recommended several different knives - but his knife, pictured throughout the book, was a Buck 120. OH

DocT said:
What I've been saying. Shoot, I used a Buck Skinner for many years in the wilderness. The 120 would/does make a great knife for these chores. A 119 might be better. I think a 124 would be a better choice than the 120, but I would not mind having either.

Most of the knives people use are too big, too thick, and only do one thing marginally well: baton. The Mora knives have been used by a lot of people for a long time as a perfect knife for outdoor use. Nessmuk used a knife with a 4.5" blade that was not heavy.

Hey guys,

I was reflecting on this thread this past weekend while backpacking with my son. I took a small 4" fixed blade and felt over-knifed, but that's a reflection of where I live and how we travel, and not a recommendation for others.

But it got me thinking... for those of you who carry hatchets or larger fixed fixed blades like the 120, I have a few questions...
- How do you travel into the backcountry? Horse? ATV? Foot/backpack? Canoe/kayak/boat?
- Do you rely on making camp fires for cooking/warmth and do you use these bigger cutting tools for wood prep?
- Do you primarily go into the woods for hunting and if so, is this a primary consideration for the large knife you choose?

Not looking for a debate and not being critical in any way shape or form. But I sense you guys spend your woods time differently than I do and trying to get a better picture of it in my head.

An older picture, but this is where we were this weekend...

Ethan Pond by Pinnah, on Flickr

MT_Pokt · Oct 28, 2015

I've gone through many knives and many combinations of knives and other tools for different activities.

My ATV is loaded for just about everything so I keep either my 560, a 110, or my CSAR-T on my belt with my 4" .357. I have fire starting tools, another 110, a machete, splitting axe and hatchet on board.

My kayak is a sit/stand fishing model and I usually have my camping pack along with some fishing specific tools.

When I'm on foot, it's usually my TOPS BOB on my belt with a 110 in my pack. The BOB is small enough to be comfortable, tough enough to be useful for almost anything, and the 1095 blade can be sharpened on just about any rock.

When I'm hunting, my 560 is on my belt along with my .357, and I have my Ergo Hunter pro in my pack.

I have mini-Bic lighters with a couple of weather proof matches in pill bottles along with fire starters in all my packs.

Every other day I have my Marksman in my front pocket and my Walther or Kimber on my hip.

The problem with having a variety of knives and guns is deciding which combo to carry every day.