Buck Ionfusion any comments?

C

Cliff Stamp

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These are the models with the edge coated on one side. Does it actually increase the edge retention significantly? When you sharpen, how fine of an edge can it take? What is the edge durability like on rougher use?

-Cliff
 
I've got a Buck Vanguard hunting knife with the "Buckcote" blade. I did a little testing using beef ribs. First I sharpened it using an extra-fine diamond hone and a 6000 grit Japanese water stone on the exposed steel strip. I was extremely carefull to match the factory bevel on the side intended for sharpening. It felt sharp in a toothy sort of way. It would shave when stroked in one direction better than in the other due to blade asymmetry.

The blade did an excellent job of stripping the meat from the beef bones. It compared well with the BG42 alloy Master Series Vanguard I used for comparison. Then I got on to the rough stuff. I used the knives to chop V-shaped notches out of the sides of the bones. I wanted to simulate tough work on elk ribs and I was worried about the durability of the coated 420HC blade. Unfortunately my concern had some basis. The Buckcote blade was significantly dinged by the process (the BG42 blade was not damaged in the least). I don't recall just how deep the initial damage was, but I couldn't fix the problem by hand. The problem is that the one-sided sharpening bevel leaves the blade as essentially a chisel grind. When I chopped on the bone the edge folded over to the "flat" side of the blade opposite the sharpened side.

I reduced the damage greatly by hard work on my smooth steel. Normally I tend to sort of lightly strop on the steel. In this case I really leaned on it and worked the blade edge first as well as spine first. The Buckcote was so hard that it actually dug into my steel if I didn't keep it perfectly alligned with the blades bevels. After that I used my diamond hones and water stone on it. It is very serviceable now, but it has conspicuous damage. I lent it to my son and he was worried that he might have damaged it.

If you are interested in having something to play with I could get it back from Tom and send it to you. I have relegated it to loaner status. I would be interested to see how it worked in some of your standard tests.
 
I have a buck 110 with the buckcote coating.
The assymetry bugs me, for daily use, but I lend it to hunters all the time, and they are very pleased by it. As long as you cut meat or other soft stuff, it hardly needs touch-ups.

It can't handle chopping or metal/krystalline stuff, because it essetially is a ceramic cutting edge. It can chip easy on a micro level, but then it is a folder.

I'd rate it in the same class as ceramic knives in edgeholding, but moderated by the 420HC backbone. It also makes one heck of a coating, I'm suprised microtech or so doesn't use it standard.

Overall, very good stuff, highly recommended.

You can lower the angle - I did and made it convex, so it actually is stronger yet still the same cutting performance.

It doesn't get razor sharp tough, I suspect because the Ti coating is too brittle if polished to that extend. I can make it razor sharp, but it doesn't hold it very long.

Greetz and take care.

P.S. I can send you the 110 it's open for trade offers, I'm looking for beaten up blades to restore, preferably some space age steel like infi... would love to try that. And for cliff, Beaten up blades shouldn't be a problem, no? :D :D :rolleyes: ;)
 
I think that it is good stuff if you don't intend to do any chopping or other tough chores with it. If you cut soft material with it, I think it will say sharp just about forever. I use an Ionfusion vanguard to clean fish and do other camp chores, and as long as I keep the edge away from any sand that might find its way onto the cutting board the edge seems to show no signs of use. However, if you do hit some sand it bends the edge slightly and kinda' creates "micro serrations" so it still slice very well. I had a difficult time getting the edge sharp enough to shave hairs off my arm, but it can be done…. though not as well as with BG-42. It will take a good working just as easily as standard 420HC which is a nice feature.

It will stay sharp for a very long time if you don't mind "babying" the edge a little bit. If you want to beat it up, I would consider other alternitives.

Jeff
 
Jeff Clark :

First I sharpened it using an extra-fine diamond hone and a 6000 grit Japanese water stone on the exposed steel strip. I was extremely carefull to match the factory bevel on the side intended for sharpening. It felt sharp in a toothy sort of way.
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That is rather interesting as that is a waterstone that is well past tootly, the coating is probably breaking apart.

[bone cutting]

That is pretty much exactly the kind of problems that leap to mind, thanks.

If you are interested in having something to play with I could get it back from Tom and send it to you.
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I would appreciate it thanks. If possible could you send it to Buck to get it re-edged and ask them to send it to me it would be ideal. I would then be able to compare the NIB performance as well as after sharpening. I'll pay for all shipping costs as well as any fees from Buck. Drop me an email to work out the details.

mschwoeb :

Buck did some standard CATRA test and found that it stays sharp about 5 times as long. It actually sharpens itself with most cutting.
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Yes, this is the "rat's tooth" principle. However it doesn't work that well on knife blades when used by people mainly because (a) we like to have a very high level of sharpness and (b) we don't exert force on the blade in an ideal manner. Once the suporting steel is worn away the coating will just break off due to lateral forces. In a machine, held at a constant angle with a well determined load, this effect is greatly reduced and thus you get very high scores - however they have little meaning to actual blade use.

Bart student :

As long as you cut meat or other soft stuff, it hardly needs touch-ups.
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Yes, but doesn't anything. Awhile ago I did some controlled use with a two Henckels kitchen knives and made sure that I was only the one using them and just cut meat and vegetables. I gave up testing the sharpness after a few weeks as the cutting ability hadn't significantly degraded. Mainly I am intersted in the edge retention on hard and soft woods, cardboard, and various types of rope, cloth and other materials at both a high polish and a coarse finish.

... it essetially is a ceramic cutting edge. It can chip easy on a micro level
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Yes that is rather obvious now that you say it, but something that didn't stand out to me right away, nice point.

It doesn't get razor sharp tough, I suspect because the Ti coating is too brittle if polished to that extend. I can make it razor sharp, but it doesn't hold it very long.
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That is very much along the lines of what I was curious about. I have found similar things with ceramics, regardless of a very high edge retention, the actual level of sharpness they can achieve is rather low. Does anyone know anything about the "grain size" of the coating. How uniform is it?

Jeff O :

I had a difficult time getting the edge sharp enough to shave hairs off my arm, but it can be done?. though not as well as with BG-42.
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One of the problems that leaps to mind is the inability to remove the burred steel as you can't hone on the other side. It might be though that the coating will prevent burr formation. However you might have to hone longer than you think to remove the weakened steel in order to get maximum edge life.

-Cliff
 
Thanks, I did a search on the Buck forum before I posted here. There are some informative comments there, however I have a hard time with 6-8 times edge retention, this could be the case, but only if you are letting the knives get *really* dull before you use them. While I do appreciate makers and manufacturers sharing their testing, I do however not simply take it all at face value. They are selling a product after all. The main benefit of such commentary from the makers is to induce feedback from the users, or it should be anyway. This is mainly what I am interested in seeing. Are people experiencing hugely greater lifetimes with the Ionfusion blades and are their any drawbacks in regards to the level of cutting ability as influenced by sharpness or the restricted geometry as well as issues with sharpening. Something else to consider may be partly coated blades, where in one section the edge if left with the coating for light use and in another where it is left bare for chopping and such. For 50/50 blades for example, the coating would seem to be ideal for the serrated section.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,
I have a Buckcote Cross Lock Hunter, the factory edge was not very sharp (barely capable of scraping some arm hair), so I rebeveled the edge to a much lower angle and fully sharpened it on a DMT hone. This took a bit more effort than I would have expected with a uncoated 420HC blade. I used the Cross Lock in the kitchen for a while, but did not like the chisel edge much (it would be better if it was on the other side since I am right handed), edge retention did seem better than plain 420HC, but I did not use it enough to tell how much. I did find that the Buckcote adds little, if any rust resistance, since rust spots would form if I let it air dry after cleaning it.
I do think Ionfusion is a good idea that should be explored further, especialy, as you sugested on serrated edges. I don't think it would work well for chopping, since the softer underlying steel would still blunt as usual.
 
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