Buck knives......makes me sad

I

ichor

Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
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Just received the new Smokey Mountain Catalog. How disheartening to see that all the old Buck standbys have gone to 420HC. Yeah, the Skinner, Pathfinder and Woodsman had those slippery, hard black handles, but they sure served me well for years, way back when.
:( :(
 
Originally posted by ichor
Just received the new Smokey Mountain Catalog. How disheartening to see that all the old Buck standbys have gone to 420HC. Yeah, the Skinner, Pathfinder and Woodsman had those slippery, hard black handles, but they sure served me well for years, way back when.
:( :(
Click to expand...

And no doubt they will continue serving knife users well for years to come.

420HC isn't the greatest steel out there but it is good at what it does, and provides a wholly acceptable performance/price ratio for most knife users.

For the price range that Buck is working with it is even possible that the corrosion resistance and easy sharpening provided by 420HC would outweigh any additional edge holding, as many of their customers are likely to be first time buyers.
 
Am I correct in assuming then that you guys feel that 425 is a superior steel to 420hc?
I wonder if my mini nighthawk is 425.
 
actually, with Paul Bos supervising the heat treat dept that steel holds up very well, and it easy to sharpen. I do think that BUCK puts a little too severe angle on some of those knives and the edge can get rolled over pretty easily, but I have tested some of the 420HC that Paul has heat treated and was pleasantly surprised. :cool:
 
I would take 420HC over 440A anyday. Buck's treatment of 420HC holds a better edge than you might think.

Paul
 
Buck 110 - only folder which really fit my palm. It is the knife - not an closing accessory ciped to a pocket. It has thick and heavy handle for superior grip. I fill armed when I hold it - my hand telling me this. Different move inertia, comfortable fit etc.
For me it is more important then more popular steel on the blade. But I ordered Buck 110 with BG-42. Easy - just call them and ask Sara.
Thanks, Vassili.
 
420HC with a good heat treat can be a very good knife steel for it's money. I've seen 420HC that are both sharper and holds edges longer than AUS6. Kershaw Scallion is a good example.
 
Buck gets alot out of their 420HC. My Bucks I use the most, 112,301, and 303, all hold an edge nicely, and get really sharp.
440C or something else would be nice, but if it keeps them affordable, and still performs well, I suppose 420HC is ok with me.
 
Any of the higher end blade steels have to be laser cut, while 420HC can still be blanked, and achieve the performance goals that Buck shoots for.
 
I have been reading alot of positive comments about 420HC lately. I would still rather have a knife made from one of the high end stainless steels, but for an inexpensive stainless knife, one made of 420HC might be the best choice.
 
Well, I have never used any 420HC, but I will say this: It doesn't matter if Buck's 420HC isn't "really that bad." It's the fact that they are downgrading the steel. Downgrading steel on a knife is not a good thing...
-Kevin
 
They're not knives, but Smith & Wesson stainless handguns use mostly 420-series, and Ruger uses 410. When a manufacturer churns out products for a big market, they're going to use the cheapest material that still meets their specs for quality/durability. For years, the fullsize trucks used c-channel steel for their frames; the continuing competition in that area has Chevy using mostly boxed frames, Dodge fully boxed, and Ford still cheaping out on their Super Duty's. Somehow, I think when the new Super Duty debuts, it'll have a [at least partially] boxed frame.

The market will determine if 420HC stays or goes. I think most people buying Buck's have no idea what 420HC is. As long as it doesn't rust too badly and holds a decent edge, they don't care either.

It's great that Buck can cater to us nichefolk with BG-42 etc.
 
Is 420HC a downgrade from 425M, which I think is what was used for years by Buck? I'm not positive, but I don't think so. I would have preferred they stayed with the 440C they used back in the '70's, but I have liked every Buck knife in 420HC that I've bought. Out performs AUS6 everyday around here. As my friend Jose says "The sheet is in the heat treat".
 
My father bought me a 105 Pathfinder in 1975 when I was 14 years old. Believe it or not, I still have it and it survived my childhood very well. Today, I continue to use it for backpacking and in the kitchen. I was always impressed with how well it held an edge. Then, through this forum, I discovered it was made with 440-C. No wonder!

So my question is:

Why was Buck able to offer 440-C blades in the 70s and not today? Were their knives considered "higher end" production knives in those days?

I read that, over the years, they went from 440-C to 425 to 420HC to "cut costs", but you would think that with today's technology, it would be less costly to offer 440-C now than it was back in the 70s.
 
mschwoeb said:
Any of the higher end blade steels have to be laser cut, while 420HC can still be blanked, and achieve the performance goals that Buck shoots for.
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Bingo. And in case anyone thinks 420 and 420HC are the same . . .

AISI 420
C 0.30 (0.40 Max.), S .030 Max., Mn 1.00 Max., Si 1.00 Max., P 0.040 Max., Cr 12.00-14.00

420HC
C 0.40-0.50, Mn 0.80, V 0.18, Mo 0.60, Cr 12.00-14.00

TAH said:
I read that, over the years, they went from 440-C to 425 to 420HC to "cut costs", but you would think that with today's technology, it would be less costly to offer 440-C now than it was back in the 70s.
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The business climate and price of steel have changed quite a bit since the '70s, while the technology of knifemaking has not changed that much. Abrasive technology has advanced, but factories still have to profile, grind, heat treat, finish, and assemble knives much the same way as they did 30 years ago. Consider that Buck has remained in California and those models are still made stateside. If they were in Idaho to start with, maybe things would be different, but for the money Buck's 420HC is hard to beat.
 
TAH - Buck knives are significantly cheaper now than they were in the 70s, when you consider inflation. I paid $25 for a 110 in 1976; I can get one at wallyworld today for $30. To keep up with those price pressures, something had to give. I was completely satisfied with the performance of the Bucks that I bought in the 70s (110, 118, 119, 301). I haven't used their 420HC very much, but I do have some newer Bucks in S30V and BG-42, and they are certainly top performers. For most of the people I know, the 420HC would be a good choice, with the combination of decent performance and easy resharpening. Most of my friends would never be able to resharpen S30V, BG-42, or D2. For most people, Buck's current offerings are excellent values.
 
I've been pleasantly surprised and pleased with the 110 in 420HC I picked up last summer for a 'loaner.' Used it extensively while hunting this summer and fall, with no complaints. It held up well for food prep, camp chores (cutting cordage, rope, etc., whittling. Sharpens easily and takes a scarey sharp edge. I think it's akin to Sandvic 12C27. When I wear the blade out, I'm going to send it back and have it replaced with BG-42, but that might take a few years.
 
I'm a fan of 420hc as heat treated by Buck also, over in the Buck forum I posted recently the results of a little torture test I did on a 420hc Buck 450, and it came through with flying colors.
 
First of all the change to 420HC was made 10 years ago. If you still found any 425M knives out there they must have been old stock or built out of old components. I have had Buck 110's with 440C, 425M, and 420HC blades. I prefer the 420HC. The other alloys were hard to sharpen and did not take as fine an edge as 420HC. The original 110's were very expensive by the standards of the day. Switching to blankable alloys made them much less expensive.

I appreciate that Buck does some specials with premium alloys. I have 3 Vanguard model hunting knives. One with 420HC with an ion fusion (I think it's Titanium Nitride) coating, a Master Series with a BG42 alloy blade and another made for Cabelas with an S30V alloy blade. The S30V blade was a particularly good deal. I also have a 560 model with a BG42 alloy 110-shaped blade and a titanium handle. The BG42 alloy 110 blades offer particularly high performance. Buck has served me well with their offering of blade alloys.
 
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