Buck lockback folders?

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wesessiah

Joined
Feb 23, 2012
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292
Am I missing something on why the small 2.5" lockbacks have a 420hc blade and are more expensive than a 110? Pretty much any other brand lockback with a 420 blade is a third the price, and knives of similar price have far superior steels like vg10 or d2 at the same price range. I'm fine with a 420 blade knife at $20 or $30, I can get a fine edge on it, but no matter the heat treat, that edge comes way too often for $75. I have everything from "high carbon stainless steel" to s90v. My daily carry most days is a benchmade auto rift in 154c, or kershaw blur in s30v, so I'm not a snob, I just don't see how I can justify spending $75 for a notch above pot metal because of fit and finish.

A decade ago I was a lot more knowledgeable for the time, as I was studying under Stuart willis, my uncle in law (those of you who haven't been here long enough to remember him, he was a vendor here, specialized in tomahawks, God rest his soul.) But I know how processes and technology changes, such as s30v going from a super chippy steel that holds a usable (but toothy) edge forever, to a steel that takes a kind of fine edge that kinda still chips easily compared to 154cm that it replaced, and doesn't quite take as fine of an edge, but is still a better steel. Forgive me, that last part is my rear being chapped over benchmade replacing 154cm.

Basically, I understand that steels can be improved, but I would really like someone to explain to me how a liner steel has become more expensive than a pseudo super steel (d2) from 15 years ago.
 
wesessiah said:
Basically, I understand that steels can be improved, but I would really like someone to explain to me how a liner steel has become more expensive than a pseudo super steel (d2) from 15 years ago.
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420 is commonly used as "liner steel".
420HC is often used as blade steel by multiple manufacturers, including Buck.
Not the same alloy composition.
 
wesessiah said:
Am I missing something on why the small 2.5" lockbacks have a 420hc blade and are more expensive than a 110? Pretty much any other brand lockback with a 420 blade is a third the price, and knives of similar price have far superior steels like vg10 or d2 at the same price range. I'm fine with a 420 blade knife at $20 or $30, I can get a fine edge on it, but no matter the heat treat, that edge comes way too often for $75. I have everything from "high carbon stainless steel" to s90v. My daily carry most days is a benchmade auto rift in 154c, or kershaw blur in s30v, so I'm not a snob, I just don't see how I can justify spending $75 for a notch above pot metal because of fit and finish.

A decade ago I was a lot more knowledgeable for the time, as I was studying under Stuart willis, my uncle in law (those of you who haven't been here long enough to remember him, he was a vendor here, specialized in tomahawks, God rest his soul.) But I know how processes and technology changes, such as s30v going from a super chippy steel that holds a usable (but toothy) edge forever, to a steel that takes a kind of fine edge that kinda still chips easily compared to 154cm that it replaced, and doesn't quite take as fine of an edge, but is still a better steel. Forgive me, that last part is my rear being chapped over benchmade replacing 154cm.

Basically, I understand that steels can be improved, but I would really like someone to explain to me how a liner steel has become more expensive than a pseudo super steel (d2) from 15 years ago.
Click to expand...
They are starting to get a little crazy 😜 with their pricing , I have noticed. Like that new big survival knife for $800. Come on , really ? I freaked out when I saw that.
 
Smaller knives have less material costs but they might be harder to make. Much more attention needs to be made to make knives where tolerances for finishing and fitting are tighter.
I’m sure that Buck choosing to use 420HC has many reasons like familiarity with their core users and keeping the prices at check when made in USA.. and plenty of other reasons.
 
knarfeng said:
420 is commonly used as "liner steel".
420HC is often used as blade steel by multiple manufacturers, including Buck.
Not the same alloy composition.
Click to expand...
I worded that wrong, I should have said "the evolution or upgrade of liner steel" or something to that effect. I was drinking, I'm surprised I made any sense at all, lol.

In all honesty 420hc could be a lot better now than I realize, I mentioned Stuart to give a frame of reference for when I actually worked with steel some, and stayed up to date and whats what, helping him in his shop over a decade ago.

I'm just so surprised at the price for what I see as the lowest acceptable steel. I know they've been using it since probably the 90s, guess I would just like to see at least 440c or something at the price point.
 
wesessiah said:
Am I missing something on why the small 2.5" lockbacks have a 420hc blade and are more expensive than a 110? Pretty much any other brand lockback with a 420 blade is a third the price, and knives of similar price have far superior steels like vg10 or d2 at the same price range. I'm fine with a 420 blade knife at $20 or $30, I can get a fine edge on it, but no matter the heat treat, that edge comes way too often for $75. I have everything from "high carbon stainless steel" to s90v. My daily carry most days is a benchmade auto rift in 154c, or kershaw blur in s30v, so I'm not a snob, I just don't see how I can justify spending $75 for a notch above pot metal because of fit and finish.

A decade ago I was a lot more knowledgeable for the time, as I was studying under Stuart willis, my uncle in law (those of you who haven't been here long enough to remember him, he was a vendor here, specialized in tomahawks, God rest his soul.) But I know how processes and technology changes, such as s30v going from a super chippy steel that holds a usable (but toothy) edge forever, to a steel that takes a kind of fine edge that kinda still chips easily compared to 154cm that it replaced, and doesn't quite take as fine of an edge, but is still a better steel. Forgive me, that last part is my rear being chapped over benchmade replacing 154cm.

Basically, I understand that steels can be improved, but I would really like someone to explain to me how a liner steel has become more expensive than a pseudo super steel (d2) from 15 years ago.
Click to expand...
in 2018 a 110 at a Walmart was around 30 us dollars. after the covid deal.......welcome to inflation and labor costs and overhead costs going up. now that same Buck 110 is around 65 us dollars at Walmart.
 
Some cheaper Bucks, with liner locks, use 420J. Not sure if any of the low-priced lock backs do.
 
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I guess in my head it's like "I always loved buck, but holy crap, they've gone up. Meanwhile victorinox has added knives with an led to the sak line, and it's less expensive than these formerly bargain price buck knives."

I'm window shopping for my son's first knife and I'm checking out the ones I'm already familiar with first. There's so much competition in the market now, I guess that's why I'm so surprised. 15 years ago I would have never imagined seeing folders in d2 for $50 either. That was the $15 "upgrade" on a griptilian.
 
wesessiah said:
I guess in my head it's like "I always loved buck, but holy crap, they've gone up. Meanwhile victorinox has added knives with an led to the sak line, and it's less expensive than these formerly bargain price buck knives."

I'm window shopping for my son's first knife and I'm checking out the ones I'm already familiar with first. There's so much competition in the market now, I guess that's why I'm so surprised. 15 years ago I would have never imagined seeing folders in d2 for $50 either. That was the $15 "upgrade" on a griptilian.
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d2 isnt what it was 15 years ago. I mean it's still d2, but benchmades marketing was d2....the best basically. now it's an entry level steel used by about every Chinese brand and Chinese made American brands. don't be impressed by it, like ya are. it's the newest entry level, replaced the 440 stamped on bout every budget no name brand in the Chinese made stuff back then.
 
jbmonkey said:
in 2018 a 110 at a Walmart was around 30 us dollars. after the covid deal.......welcome to inflation and labor costs and overhead costs going up. now that same Buck 110 is around 65 us dollars at Walmart.
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I paid $30 for a 110 in 1985 about 10 hours pay for me at the time.

Buck did a good job at keeping the price down for a long time. Moving to Idaho streamlined production etc. now with no more corners to cut raising prices is inevitable.
 
If you shop at buck direct, you can get a 110 in a drop point blade, at about the same price, maybe a few dollars more than what is seen in Walmart. I Remember in my youth I would see a Buck 110 at Walmart for 39.99
Now it's 65.99
 
eveled said:
In 2016, I bought a new one with nylon sheath for $28! $2 cheaper than my first one in 1984 which came with a leather sheath.

I remember my dad’s first one in the 70’s was a major expense at that time for him.
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compare to what ya can get for 65 us dollars made in America any more, it's still a decent deal....but I do miss the 30 dollars cost a handful of years ago.......should have bought more than I did and stashed them......
 
You also have to remember what we were making per hour back then.

Luckily I have enough Buck 110’s to last a lifetime ontop of my other knives. So I’m done buying.
 
Some of the problem is people expect low prices on everything.
Hence the move to manufacture things in 3rd world countries with lower labor costs.

I don't work for low wages, nor do I expect my neighbor to. So if I have to pay more for an item he made so he can afford to raise his kids in a secure environment, I'm good with that.

It's more important that they are good than it is for me to get a cheap product. "Things" are less important.
 
GPyro said:
Some of the problem is people expect low prices on everything.
Hence the move to manufacture things in 3rd world countries with lower labor costs.

I don't work for low wages, nor do I expect my neighbor to. So if I have to pay more for an item he made so he can afford to raise his kids in a secure environment, I'm good with that.

It's more important that they are good than it is for me to get a cheap product. "Things" are less important.
Click to expand...
I don't have a problem spending money, as I'm a benchmade junkie, and I feel like they have a higher percentage of profit per knife than comparable brands, but I don't complain about it with them, because I'm getting steels like s30v, cruwear, and s90v when I buy a benchmade.

For a folder with a 2.5" blade at the $75 price point, I just don't feel like it would be a stretch to expect something more comparable to 440c or 154cm
 
It also helps to bear in mind that despite what the talking heads on YouTube say, 420hc is still a fine blade steel. Sure, it doesn't sound as cool as some of the hot steels now, but it'll cut what needs cutting without frustrating a novice knife sharpener at the end of the day. Which could help retain the interest of a budding edged tool enthusiast.
 
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