Buck Thug hollow grind

[winchester73]

Now that Flat grind Thugs are coning out, does anyone actually like the hollow grind. Picked a used Thug and wonder if I should have waited on the flat grind and paid more.

 

[David Martin]

I've always liked a hollow grind. I have used some flat grinds and don't see what the jazz is about. It is more trendsical. DM

 

[A.P.F.]

I have always preferred a hollow grind as well. I find that it doesn't tend to foul the medium being cut as a flat grind sometimes will. Think cheese.

 

[pinnah]

I've always liked a hollow grind. I have used some flat grinds and don't see what the jazz is about. It is more trendsical. DM

I get what the jazz is about.

Speaking as a backpacker/ski tourer first and a hunter in a distant second, I think the real question here for Buck is now that the Ron Hood collaboration has put Buck on the map in the Survival/Bushcraft market, will Buck take that market seriously enough to pursue designs for that market, or treat it as a passing trend. To some extent, I think the same question applies to the backpacking/outdoor recreation market, which I don't think Buck is doing a good job of addressing. And perhaps more broadly, can Buck translate the "trendy" interest in survival/bushcraft fixed blades into increased sales among EDC folding knives, the way that Ontario has with the Rat2 and ESEE has done with the Zancudo? I suspect that many of started carrying hollow ground EDC Bucks due to our warm feelings and good experiences with larger hollow ground Buck hunting knives. My love of my Buck 500 is tied to my love of my Buck 110, for example.

Getting back to the Thug specifically, the Thug is designed to be capable of wood chopping. The general consensus in the survival/bushcraft forums (including the BF wilderness and outdoors forums) is that flat ground blades are best for chopping for the same reasons that traditional machetes and parangs are flat ground.

This is my take on the best pairing of blade grinds to uses. All of this IMO and obviously YMMV applies...

Chopping - flat grind
Fire making (i.e., making shavings, feather sticks, splitting small wood) - convex grind
Meat processing - hollow grind
Food preparation - flat or thin convex

<rant>
As a backpacker/climber/ski tourer, I honestly don't get the survival/chopper thing. I'm very glad any time young people get out into God's good creation. I mean that as sincerely as about anything I've ever written on this forum. And if watching people jump out of helicopters helps with that, I'll take it. But I dislike the Ramboesque approach for 2 reasons. First, it diverts attention away from real (boring) backcountry skills like stove-craft, navigation, judgement and first aid. Generally speaking, firemaking just isn't needed. Second, the last thing I want to see near a maintained trail or backcountry destination is the sign of unneeded damage. Here's an example...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Stupid-Moronic-Firebuilding-Bushcrafter-Fail
</rant>

<drift>
For general purpose EDC and backpacking, I totally get the "jazz" of flat or thin convex grinds. Here's a selection of knives that I own and use regularly.

image by Pinnah, on Flickr

Top to bottom: Schrade 51OT (flat ground), Buck 500 (hollow grind), Opinel #9 (thin convex), Buck 110 (hollow)

My EDC use is actually pretty similar to my backpacking use. I use my EDC for personal prep a lot, cut wood (clearing brush or making fires) and occasionally process meat. While there are foods for which a hollow grind helps break the suction, by and large, the flat or thin convex blades blow the hollow grinds out of the water for food prep. It's not even close, really. If people want a cheap experiment, spend $15 on an Inox Opinel #8 or #9, put it in the kitchen drawer for a while and use it side by each with your favorite hollow grind knife (Buck or otherwise). For wood cutting, the convex blades do better than the flat grinds (they bind less) and both do a much, much, much better job than the hollow grinds. For processing meat, I can give the advantage to my hollow grind knives, but it's not a huge advantage.

Occasionally, I hold both my Opinel and Buck 500 in my hand in the morning. I almost always choose the Opinel because the blade just does a noticeably better job at the things I use a knife for. I love Buck more but in the end, the performance of the Opinel's blade wins out. Knifes like the flat ground Ontario Rat 2 and ESEE Zancudo are on my "to try" list. I wish Buck would head in that direction and offer a frame lock with a flat or convex ground blade.

This all circles back around to my first question.... How serious is Buck about going after the Survival/Bushcraft or Backpacking/Outdoor recreation markets and will they offer EDC options that reflect those markets?

 

[David Martin]

I knew we could depend on you for a good long rant. Though my thoughts differ from yours, I notice little difference in the two grinds in cutting. Buck has been offering much in the area of hikers/ back packer knives. Though I guess they should contact you for additional marketing advice. DM

 

[pinnah]

Thought my thoughts differ from you and I notice little difference in the two grinds in cutting.

Well, there you have it. Differences make the world go round.

The knife in question, the Thug, is designed to handle chopping. In your experience, do you find little difference between a flat and hollow grind for chopping wood?

Buck has been offering much in the area of hikers/ back packer knives. Though I guess they should contact you for additional marketing advice. DM

Offering and selling are very different. The number of product offerings by major retailers catering to backpacking and climbing is suggestive, imo.

REI: Gerber (48), Leatherman (28), Benchmade (20), Swiss Army (18), Buck (7)
Campmor: Swiss Army (21), Boker (19), Gerber (19), CRKT (10), Morakniv (10), Buck (0)
Backcountry.com: Benchmade (16), CRKT (6), Gerber (8), Leatherman (13), Victorinox (2), Buck (0)
EMS: Leatherman (19), Swiss Army (8), Liberty (7), Helle (6), Buck (4)
MEC: Victorinox (42), Leatherman (29), Gerber (30), CKRT (6), Opinel (6), Buck (0)

Obviously, this is no indication of actual sales numbers. Only a small snap shot of on-line retail "shelf space". But in so far as these retailers are responding to customer demand, the knives that Buck is making for the backpacking/climbing crowd aren't generating huge demand. I've no delusion of Buck listening to me. But as a backpacker, I can understand why Buck knives aren't gaining traction. Again, the question is how serious are they about going after the survival and backpacking markets. And yes, based in my experience in marketing that does mean listening to potential customers.

 

[David Martin]

I don't chop with a knife. I use a hatchet, the tool designed for chopping. I said, 'cutting'. Look back at my post. One day I did chop with a 7 1/2" blade camp knife I had made of 440C with a micarta handle. I realized then, for a knife to be a decent chopper it would need a 8 1/2-9" blade, minimum. This would make it too large to be of much use for anything else. DM

 

[winchester73]

I used my used Thug knife over the week end and it performed great hollow grind or not. For used it looks like new. II really like it.