Buck Vanguard in ATS-34

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W.T. Beck

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Jul 9, 2001
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I recently discovered that Bass Pro Shops is advertising a model of the Buck Vanguard hunting knife with an ATS-34 blade.

Does anyone have any comments on how good such a knife should be? ATS-34 is quite a step up from the 420HC steel used in the standard Vanguard.

Besides the better steel, are there any other good points to be made about the Vanguard? I noticed that it has a hollow grind, while most highly rated hunting knives have flat or convex grinds.
 
The Vanguard is a great hunting knife. It is just the right size for game from deer through moose. The hollow ground blade is easily kept sharp even with a relatively hard alloy like ATS-34. Handle one and I think you'll get a feel for why the design is popular.
 
I would think that a hollow grind would be quite good for a hunting knife if that's all you want it for. I think other highly regarded "hunters" that are flat or convex ground tend to be used for utility and light camp chores as well.
 
Hello Grapevine,

Why do flat or convex grinds make a knife more suitable for utility? I am just curious as I have noticed that Dozier knives, which are slightly hollow ground, are widely regarded as among the best utility knives available.

At any rate I am well-supplied with similar convex ground knives - a Falkeniven F1 and a Blackjack Trailguide.
 
hollow grinds do provide a suitable edge for skinning. the short fall is that they will chip and roll easier than a flat or convex. due to having less sectional density behind the edge. flats and convex in perticular handle chopping and twisting much better.
 
I think the subject of grinds is probably more complex than it would appear. I was just on the Dozier site, reading about his new Wilderness knife. That one is hollow ground, but Dozier states that it is designed for a variety of utility uses, including chopping wood.

Given Dozier's reputation, I don't think he would choose a grind that would not work for it's advertised purposes.

Of course, my original question was regarding the Buck Vanguard, which certainly would not be equal to a Dozier.
 
flats and convex in perticular handle chopping and twisting much better.
Click to expand...


That being the case, how relevant is this to a small knife like the Vanguard? When I think of a knife for chopping, I think of a large knife like the Busse Battle Mistress or the Cold Steel Trailmaster. Should chopping ability be an important concern for knives with blades under five inches? Perhaps in a survival situation when a small knife is all you have, then you would want something that could be used for chopping.
 
The hollow grind blade works better on a hunting knife than any other grind. The reason for this is that it provides a thinner cutting edge while allowing a thick blade for strength. You want a very thin edge on a hunting knife to cut sticky, fibrous, and elastic tissues. These tissues will move around and wad up if your edge isn't thin and extremely sharp. You can achieve thin edges with other grinds, but you will need to remove more material when you sharpen them. The hollow grind is the easiest to keep razor sharp for a given blade thickness. The only weakness is in chopping bone. With ATS-34 you should still be ok there.
 
You guys should check out the Dozier forum. There's a topic over there that might help you out on this subject. Bob Dozier, BuzzBait, and Hoodoo had a discussion very similiar to this one.
 
scottybuck,

Thanks. I read through that thread quickly, but I think I got the gist of it. Bob Dozier didn't seem too convinced that changing the grind would improve his knives.

I think the fact that Bob Dozier uses hollow grinds is probably the best endorsement one can find for hollow ground knives. I have never seen one negative comment about his knives, and there are zillions of posts about Dozier knives.
 
W.T.Beck, I own 2 of Bob's blades, and have another on the way. I use Bob's Canoe knife every day for utility type task's, and can't say enough about this blade! It stay's sharp forever!!!! It's like the energizer bunny:D Whenever I get another knife, I always compare it to my Dozier! I have a slim outdoorsman on the way, and can't wait to see how it performs. You guys should check out the Dozier forum often. Bob seem's to be answering alot of questions over there.
 
Thanks for your input, scottybuck. I had decided recently that a Dozier knife would be my next knife purchase. I haven't seen any maker praised more highly than Bob Dozier.

The only reason I have not bought one in the past is the small guards and/or shallow finger grooves on Dozier knives. I am partial to knives with substantial guards, which is what attracted me to the Buck Vanguard.

This is partly due to the fact that I take blood thinning medicine for an artificial heart valve. If I accidently cut myself and the thinner level is too high, I could easily bleed to death. So I feel more comfortable with knives that have long finger guards, like the Vanguard. Nevertheless, some knives, like the Dozier's, sound so good that I want them despite a small guard.
 
W.T.Beck, When you order a Dozier, ask Bob to make the guard longer. I was very close to doing this on my slim outdoorsman but decided against it. I did get thumb notches put on the spine of the blade though. For an extended guard on a Dozier, it's $20 extra. That seems like a small price to pay, especially considering what you've told me. If you're considering ordering a Dozier, you might want to take the plunge now. A.G.Russell posted on the Dozier forum stating that Bob Dozier is probably going to raise his prices very soon :grumpy: As much as I hate to see it happen, it probably should have happened a long time ago.
 
I think the quality of Dozier knives have less to do with what grind he uses and more to do with his heat treatment and his precision at grinding whatever style grind he chooses.
 
Bob Dozier's knives are a combination of many great things. His heat treated D2 is, of course, a significant factor in the success of his knives. But his grinds are also a big deal. His hollow grinds are much better than what I've found on production knives. The hollow is very consistent in thickness behind the edge, so repeated sharpenings do not significantly impact the knife’s cutting ability.

A flat grind is indeed stronger than a hollow grind, but there is a drawback. Repeated sharpening of a flat grind decreases the cutting efficiency, because the edge gets thicker as you remove material. While this isn’t a big issue to many people, those who sharpen their knives often will get more life out of a hollow grind.

As you can see on Bob’s board, the convex grind has been a lively discussion. The tough part seems to be in getting a suitable amount of convex shape into as thin a blade as possible. It’s easy on a thick blade, but a thin blade appears to be much more challenging.
 
Great discussion guys....thanks!


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
Thanks for all the info, everyone.

Buzzbait, I think I understand now why my knives with convex grinds all have thick blades, especially my Blackjack Trailguide.

This is getting away from the subject of the Buck Vanguard, but one thing I have concluded from the hollow grind comments is that one should avoid LARGE knives with hollow grinds, such as 9 - 10 inch bladed bowies. Those knives are intended for chopping, so the hollow grind is not appropriate for them. Do you guys agree?
 
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