Bud Nealy using M2?

D

dp

Joined
Nov 4, 1998
Messages
100
I have one of Bud Nealy's Aikuchi models (older) made with ATS-34; a great concealable knife. I new he came out with the Pesh Kabz, but was out of the country and have been waiting to get one...I've recently seen his new knives being made out of M2 with a baked on powder coat.

Is the M2 all that much better? Also, how does his baked on powder coat hold up to humidity as compared to his older ATS-34 (of which, I had no problems down in Ecuador/Peru).

Any info would be greatly appreciated,

Dave
 
Hello,

I got a M2 Steel little Pesh Kabz.

The M2 steel is still a stranger to me.
It is really hard to shard and I haven't really test its toughness.

I believe the Pesh Kabz is a weapon first, when I am much enjoying utility knife.
I need to test it on wood.

For rust and stain resistance, I am really amazed.
No stain even, even after cutting oignons.

Cheers,

JM
 
I dont know much about M-2, other than it is a high speed tool steel that can be hardened in the lower to mid 60's on the Rockwell scale.

I am sure it is a good steel. I dont think in something like a Pesh Kabz you would ever tell any practical difference between the ATS 34 -vs- the M-2.

If Mr. Nealy hardened the M-2 to its mid to upper limits, it will be a S.O.B. to sharpen.

I think it boils down to which one you like the looks of better.

If you do ever have the unfortunate circumstance of having to use your Nealy for what it was designed for, I dont think the "recieving" person will know if you are using M-2 or ATS 34!!!
 
dp --

Heat treat is everything, so outside of testing Nealy's knives, we can't know for sure.

However, there have been numerous tests of ATS-34 vs. M-2 using Benchmade's AFCK. Note that Benchmade's ATS-34 heat treat is excellent, so this is really a good test.

Numerous reviewers found M-2 noticeably tougher than ATS-34, and a better edge-holder, too. If this is a usin' knife, M-2 is worth an extra few bucks for me.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 
Thanks for the info. Bud Nealy's designs are extremely concealable with his sheath system. I thinks you're right Joe, if the powder coating can offer the equivalent protection that the AFCK gets, the M2 might be a better choice.

Hey Nemo, you mentioned the smaller Pesh Kabz as being a great utility knife...I know that the primary purpose is as a defensive knife, but having the added versatility as a small utilitarian-style bladed knife makes it that much more appealing.

Thanks for the input; however, one last question...how much more difficult is M2 to sharpen over ATS34?

Dave
 
There is a nice article by Butch Winters (awesome writer) in the most recent issue of Tactical Knives (March '99) on the M-2 steel.
 
dp --

I've only sharpened my M-2 AFCK once, and it was quite a while back. I don't remember it being particularly difficult, but I often start with an x-coarse DMT stone that makes quick work of just about anything. I don't have anything definitive to say about sharpening M-2, other than I don't remember being particularly frustrated.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 
Hello

Now I can talk a little more about the M2 from Bud Nealy.
I have the black coat removed and I have used diamonds to resharp.

First, after coating removing, I have noticed no rust or coloration and I use that little Pesh Kabz everyday in the kitechen and outside.
I have left the blade uncleaned with salt sauce and nothing happen.
The feel in wood and especially fibrous matters is really amazing.
Also I eat with knife and the plates are famous to destroy edges.
The M2 doesn't suffer from plate ripping.

Now sharpening happens rarely but is easy.

That was my little 2 euros .

Cheers,

JM
 
I have an AFCK in M2 and Nealy's Pesk Kabz in M2. The AFCK has never needed sharpening. The PK wasn't all that sharp when I got it, so I redid the edge on my Tormek water wheel and now it's really sharp. The powder coating isn't all that durable - you can scratch it off.

M2 - or HSS as it's also called - is used for alomost all the drill bits you have laying around your garage. It rusts easily and if used in the jungle I would bet it would start rusting at once - but then what won't? HSS steel is brittle. Clamp a drill bit in a vise and whack it with a hammer. Knives from HSS aren';t as hard as bits and such but still don't have the shock resistance of A2 steel. I think HSS makes really nice cutting tools including smaller knives which aren't expected to be subjected to extreme lateral stress or impact. If you clamp the same knife made from ATS 34 and HSS in a vise and try and break 'em, I'd bet the HSS would break first.

That not with standing, I have a 180 cm x 65 cm x 4mm plate of HSS standing in my woirkshop just waiting to be made into all kinds of neat little knives.

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www.wilkins-knives.com


 
I have never seen a knife maker heat treat M2 to its upper limits in terms of RC which is the high 60's, it would probably be fairly brittle then. However, at the low RC commonly used (60) its much tougher than ATS-34. Take a look at the review by Thaddeus and attempt to do what he did with an ATS-34 blade. M2 will bend where ATS-34 will break/chip.

In regards to sharpening, all harder steels can be difficult on soft stones as they tend to glide or slip. However as Nemo and Joe pointed out, nothing stands up to diamonds for long.

-Cliff
 
Benchmade told me they are hardening their M-2 blades to the same 61 RcH that they target for the ATS-34 blades. At equivalent hardness, M-2 is much tougher than ATS-34, as tempered by Benchmade.

You can definately tell that M-2 is finer grained than ATS-34 when you sharpen it. It takes a finer edge, and finer grain structure usualy means better toughness at the same hardness.

Harv
 
I'll glady pay a premium for M2 every time over ATS34. In my most informal of person-use testing I've found that I can sharpen M2 to a much finer edge (as Steve just said) and it lasts longer and seems tougher.

In general I've sworn off ATS34 knives for everyday working knives when options like 440v and M2 are available.


--Doug
 
Paying a premium for M2 is one thing I don't understand: considering M2 steel is way way cheaper to buy than ATS-34... I haven't tried to grind it yet, but I expect it to work much easier than ATS 34 or other stainless and / or vanadium containing steels...

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www.wilkins-knives.com


 
Kevin I would appreciate your comments on the "workability" of M2 after you have done some grinding on it. It has been stated several times that it is hard to work and that is the reason for its increased cost as a blade material. Plus it is usually coated, how much does that cost?.

-Cliff
 
I've got to get that big plate of M2 out to the water jet cutters - I can barely lift it. I think I'll make some of the larger Thorn series knives first to test it out.

Yes, the blade coating does add to the cost of the knives. I'm trying to find somebody here who can do black Ti. Otherwise I will try matt chrome or black matte chrom. Perhaps even blueing.

Will post more as soon as I get some knives cut. I don't see how it could be harder to grind than CPM 420V. I thought my grinder was broken. :-)

I'm working on 4 modified Hunter knives in D2 with file worked spines and fancy wood grips...

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www.wilkins-knives.com


 
Kevin --

Is 420v more difficult to work with than 440v?

I had just assumed that 420v was just a more stain resistant (thus higher chromium content) than 440v, but I wasn't actually basing that on anything factual. Is it actually a tougher steel with better edge holding?

Walter Birdsong does Back-T in the state for about $10-$15 a knife in small quantities (ie: even just 1 or 2 pieces) -- but you are in Germany, right?


Thanks,

--Doug
 
I found 420V to be much more resistant to grinding than 440V. My friend Michael Jankowsky here in Berlin also makes fixed blade hunting kives and he also said he thought his grinder was broken when he tried to grind 420V. He's also worked 440V and Swedish RWL powder metal stainless. Perhaps this is due to the high vanadium content of the 420V? I'm not sure. 440V is no picnic to grind either.

I've heard of Mr. Birdsong and have also considered sending him abatch of knives to coat. I'm still trying to check out leads here in the area first - the tiurn around time plus custms headaches etc make sending the blades to the USA a bit of a drag.

------------------
www.wilkins-knives.com


 
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