Buffer direction

T

TheBishop

Joined
Aug 27, 2009
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OK, I'm sure all have seen this vid of a guy sharpening a serrated blade with a gritted wheel and a rag wheel.

[video=youtube;SOFcnP79bBU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOFcnP79bBU[/video]

Now, I'm a bit new to buffer polishing and sharpening, and all that I'm done has been working away from the wheel rotation, not into it.

Question, is it my imagination or is he grinding and polishing INTO the spin?
Cause it sure looks like it to me.

I can understand how the right rogue might actually work in and create a bur that way ... but is it safe in any way?
If I'm watching it right, it is a bit logical to go into the turn, like you would using a stone or paddle.

But like a belt, I feel its safer to work with the direction of rotation and safer.

Am I seeing the spin wrong or is he grinding into the turn, and how safe is that.
I'm thinking easy throw but if you have the hand ....
 
It does seem to be turning into the edge. On the one hand, it does seem dangerous to me, but I don't use grinders or powered buffers anyway, aside from a Dremel. On the other hand, it doesn't really surprise me that some folks out there are doing it. I was looking at a 'How It's Made' video earlier, featuring the production of Case pocketknives at their factory. There's a segment in the video, showing the final cutting edge being ground onto the blade using a belt grinder, with the belt turning into the blade edge. The saving grace is, the belt is moving away from the operator (horizontally), so I suppose it'd just throw the knife away from them, if it dug in (possible hand/finger injuries notwithstanding :eek:).

Personally, I wouldn't do it. :)
 
I sharpen edge in on belt grinders, its safe. Edge into a buffer though? Youd have to be insane.
 
Optical illusion. Called Wagon Wheel Effect or Temporal Aliasing. Something to do with the speed of rotation and your eyes "framerate"
 
mongolguy said:
Optical illusion. Called Wagon Wheel Effect or Temporal Aliasing. Something to do with the speed of rotation and your eyes "framerate"
Click to expand...

I was looking hard and thinking that might be the case, just not sure.
He's way too casual if he was going in, and aggressive on the rag, so much that he's jumping off it.
 
If he is and that buffer grabs the blade he won't do it again. I had a rag wheel snag the tip of a blade I was working on. Ripped it out of my hand and slung it at my feet. I almost had kittens. :) Cut about a six inch gash in the floor. Thank god it didn't take anything else on the way down.
 
mongolguy said:
Optical illusion. Called Wagon Wheel Effect or Temporal Aliasing. Something to do with the speed of rotation and your eyes "framerate"
Click to expand...

That makes sense. I see this a lot in video of helicopter rotors too, which often look as if they're spinning at an oddly slow rate (and perhaps in the 'wrong' direction too), in flight.
 
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It's not that uncommon for grinding/buffing edge-lead into the wheel. It is so in this case because for virtually all grinder/buffer designed/specs the wheel always spin counter-clockwise (into you) when the switch/label is facing you. In event of a snag/catch, the sharpening object (and digits) fly downward floor instead of across the room.

I use edge-trail since edge-lead seem too dangerous especially buffing, so easy for wheel to grab the tip :concern:
 
bluntcut said:
It's not that uncommon for grinding/buffing edge-lead into the wheel. It is so in this case because for virtually all grinder/buffer designed/specs the wheel always spin counter-clockwise (into you) when the switch/label is facing you. In event of a snag/catch, the sharpening object (and digits) fly downward floor instead of across the room.

I use edge-trail since edge-lead seem too dangerous especially buffing, so easy for wheel to grab the tip :concern:
Click to expand...

I spun my buffer around on its base so it spins away from me, switch still looking at me, and work the top of the wheel, even if grinding.
Towel catch net hanging a few feet away then wood wall.

So far, so good, but all work done edge-trail.

Like i said, in the vid it was a bit of a WT_? moment ... in public no less :)

Actually thinking of trying a serrated bread knife or Spyderco style on a loose or spiral wheel loaded with an emery compound to see if it can actually work its way into the scallops and maybe get a bur.
 
TheBishop said:
I spun my buffer around on its base so it spins away from me, switch still looking at me, and work the top of the wheel, even if grinding.
Towel catch net hanging a few feet away then wood wall.

So far, so good, but all work done edge-trail.

Like i said, in the vid it was a bit of a WT_? moment ... in public no less :)

Actually thinking of trying a serrated bread knife or Spyderco style on a loose or spiral wheel loaded with an emery compound to see if it can actually work its way into the scallops and maybe get a bur.
Click to expand...

Please turn it back around, and learn to use it properly!
If your way was better, all buffers would turn that way. What you are doing is dangerous.
 
Bill, finding it 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
If you are working the blade the same way and have the area to do it, I don't see much of a difference.

If anything, it will go away from me if lost.

Why would it be any more dangerous than spinning at me?

Point is its no different than a belt that goes horizontal away from you rather than down towards you.
I'm not inverting the blade to look at me, I'm working the face.
 
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Everyone thinks they have found a better way, yet there is a reason tools are used in a traditional manner.
The blade can still whip around and come back at you. You have much better control holding the work between the middle and bottom of the wheel.
Be safe. Learn to use the buffer properly.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Everyone thinks they have found a better way, yet there is a reason tools are used in a traditional manner.
The blade can still whip around and come back at you. You have much better control holding the work between the middle and bottom of the wheel.
Be safe. Learn to use the buffer properly.
Click to expand...


Bill, not saying your wrong or looking to argue. I just think there are several ways to skin a cat is all. Especially if the direction with the wheel is the same ... away from you.
Improperly, I don't know if I'd go that far. Each way if caught it would get thrown away from you.
If can whip the blade around back to you from the top, I would imagine the same can happen from the bottom no?
Let alone the bounce back up to you factor working low. Working top, it may launch to the moon, but I should not be there ;)

So far have good, consistent results working the top of the wheel with it running opposite. For Sharpening.
My big ? and interest is how it would apply to a buffing wheel and rogue for serrated blades used in the same way.

I has several advantages, especially visually and the ability to mark the wheels and be consistent on the angle.

Found this video online, which is pretty much exactly how I do it, but bolted :)
You might find it interesting:

[video=youtube;JG22AFsxHPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG22AFsxHPY[/video]
 
Sharpening and buffing are different animals.
I doubt buffing (on top or bottom) would give consistent sharpening results on serrations. If you use a loose wheel and a very light touch, you may see some improvement.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Sharpening and buffing are different animals.
I doubt buffing (on top or bottom) would give consistent sharpening results on serrations. If you use a loose wheel and a very light touch, you may see some improvement.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm trying to figure out, if it can be done. I'm not crazy enough to push it too far :)
A fast and consistent touch up to serrated blades, various widths. Especially in the thin cuts. Not a reprofile mind you. Thinking loose or spiral wheel and emery rogue. Light touch.
Cross fingers and hope to feel a bur, cause if that first vid is real, who knows, sounds like he's raising a bit of somethin somethin with that rag wheel on the serrations.

Also, the buffer is bolted to a heavy pedestal on locking wheels so can always spin it around for standard use as well. I flipped it not just for top sharpening, but to have the switch in front of me.

Actually have a 1/4" paper wheel I'm gonna sand to a henkles sized scallop and glue grit on and see how that works for reprofile, as I've come across some destroyed scallops on good bread knives, and a conical file just took too long.
 
A Dremel and the proper size stone works pretty well, if you use it on slow speed. Use conical rubber wheels to finish polish the scallops.
You'll find that the buffer tends to round high spots and do little to low spots.
 
Just some interesting observations.

Threw on white rogue on a spiral wheel.
Took a Spyderco Police model fully serrated ... not bad shape, just a bit used, some bur.

Took a ceramic rod and took the bur off the back.
Took it to the outside edge of the wheel, like the guy Ray in the first vid.
3 passes and had a bur! The corner of the wheel was working its way into the scallops and making a bur. Light touch.

Passed the back on a leather with diamond paste to debur, test, and no doubt pretty darn sharp!

Played back and forth, created a bur, took it off by hand or belt. Put it to the wheel again.
Need to play more but if its simply dull, I think it will, did, bring the edge back, the scallops were paper slicing. Sometimes was able to push the knife clean through the paper, other times it hung some, but if I picked a particular scallop, it pushed catalog glossy paper clean. The stiffer cover the serrated walked right through clean.

Then took a beat up bread knife with chips in the scallops. Old knife used for 20 years never sharpened but heavily used, I cook, a lot.

No, it can't reprofile, didn't expect it to, but damn if it did not sharpen each scallop and get a bur on the other side.
A hit on the belt sander to of the bur, a pass through a felt block, and she was slicing paper half decently.

I think Ray's got somethin there for a quick serrated touchup.
Need to play around a bit more but faster and better results than drawing the knife across the a sharpmaker.
Interesting experiment.

Gives the edge a polish to boot :)
 
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