bugout bags

MelancholyMutt

MelancholyMutt

Doggy Style
Joined
Apr 13, 2002
Messages
3,906
Posted by steve-in-kville on 10-13-2002 11:46 PM:
E&E pack: Recommended knives

With all the current local & world events (terrorists, snipers, etc) I have been putting together sorta my version of an Escape & Evasion pack. This world be in the event I'd have to quickly move my family to another location on the spur of the moment (like in the event of bio or chemical attack). The pack would contain obviously a sidearm, spare ammo, minor first aid stuff, some survival stuff (fire making, etc) tactical light(s), cell phone and so on.

At this point, you may all diagnose me as being paranoid, but better to be prepared.

Anyhow, I need some opinions on what type of knives would be most useful. I have a multi-tool and was considering a mid-size fixed blade and a smaller folder. Any suggestions appreciated - Thanks!!

P.S. This is strickly E&E. Get my family to a save place, while dealing with possible "disruptions" along the way. I won't be looking for any battles to fight, merely utility and defense.


steve


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Posted by MelancholyMutt on 10-14-2002 12:15 AM:
A few E&E instructors caution against carrying a firearm

Evasion is the name of the game. I forgot exactly where I was told this, but I was instructed that carrying a firearm will only draw attention to oneself especially if used. Generally, if you are in a foreign land and attempting to escape the authorities, your best bet is to look like the locals. If you do run into some trouble, using the firearm will not only draw more attention to yourself, but will probably bring down major repercussions if you're caught at a later moment.

If you're not running from the authorities, if you're stopped by them, you may be detained for having your firearm.

So thus, I have a few suggestions...
Keep in mind that the gun may be the first thing you have to ditch. If you've included a safe storage case, you might bury it and return for it if needed.

Food, money and spare ID should be added.

When I had need for one, we called it a "bugout" bag.
One bugout bag for each family member old enough to carry one.
Small duffel bag with supplies for young children that cannot carry one. You don't need to be redundant with certain materials because there will be an adult (thus an adult bugout bag) with the small children.

Custom tailor your bugout bag to possible scenarios, and then stock it accordingly. The same with any survival kit. The biggest mistake most people make is having one thing for every purpose.


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Posted by steve-in-kville on 10-14-2002 12:22 AM:

Some good points, Mutt.

We live in a rural area. Our chances of such previously described attacks are less likey than a city.

However, there are cities close by that could be prone to civil unrest. I may need to drive through these cities for work.

This pack would be handy in the event a riot or unrest would break out during work hours, miles from home.

Thanks for the comments.

steve




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Posted by Schtik on 10-14-2002 12:28 AM:

What soldiers carry:
http://home.surewest.net/pcm/GEAR & UNIFORM.html

Since soldiers are who define Escape & Evasion... (blah blah blah, I talk too much.)


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Posted by MelancholyMutt on 10-14-2002 12:29 AM:
in a bugout situation...

if you're driving... always assume that you will have to abandon your vehicle, and have a contingency plan for that.

edited to add...
Also, have maps of your area, a compass, GPS if possible, and small AM/FM radio.



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Posted by MelancholyMutt on 10-14-2002 12:34 AM:
I would hardly qualify


quote:
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Originally posted by Schtik
What soldiers carry:
http://home.surewest.net/pcm/GEAR & UNIFORM.html

Since soldiers are who define Escape & Evasion... (blah blah blah, I talk too much.)
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A self-formed militia to be defined as soldiers.



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Posted by AlphalphaPB on 10-14-2002 12:38 AM:

I carry a Buck/Strider large folder in my emergency pack. It's more convenient than carrying a fixed-blade, and it'll do pretty much anything that a medium sized fixed-blade could handle.



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Posted by MelancholyMutt on 10-14-2002 01:05 AM:
Just over a year ago, my family used our bugout bags...

we live only blocks from the former WTC, and I was within a block when the first plane hit. My family grabbed the bags and the dogs and bugged out. in most urban areas, the new phenomenon will be that instead of anarchy and chaos, you will have neighbor helping neighbors. I saw deli's push cartons of potato chips and water into the street for people escaping the tragedy. Poland Spring Trucks rolled into ground zero and the surrounding area and handed out free water. The next morning, restaurants in the effected areas put out free food for the neighborhood. Able bodied people checked on their neighbors and made sure they had what they needed. In retrospect, my parents needed not bug out and actually had difficulty getting back in. I was working for the State Government at the time, so I had no problem, but you get the drift.

Yes, be prepared to bug out, but I think your chances of needing to bug out is minimal, especially if you're surroundings are rural.



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Posted by im2smrt4u on 10-14-2002 01:09 AM:

What pack would be good for an E&E pack or bug-out bag?


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Posted by MelancholyMutt on 10-14-2002 01:26 AM:
It depends upon what kind of e&e


quote:
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Originally posted by im2smrt4u
What pack would be good for an E&E pack or bug-out bag?
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I prefer subdued commercial colors... black, dark blues and dark reds. Nothing high speed, nothing bright, nothing military. All these attract attention. A Daypack is best for urban areas. The bigger the bag gets, the more attention it grabs, the smaller the chance that you will have it when you need it. One may also tend to fill it to capacity and thus slow your "bugout". A pack running about 2000 cubic inches with several pockets for different things. Your pack shoud weigh no more than thirty pounds. Include a waterproofing cover to preserve your gear, as well as prevent having to carry a few pounds of useless water.

When using a bugout bag... grab bag and run away from danger... at your first safe rest period, remove the very important objects and place in secure pockets. Place knives in pockets and belt. ID,money, cellphone, firestarting stuff, and whatever you deem to be crucial to survival on your person, preferably in buttoned pockets.

At this point, identify a safe location you are trying to reach, and plan a route. If the route is long, including plans to obtain food. Obtain water and then set out on your route.


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Posted by Schtik on 10-14-2002 01:36 AM:
Re: It depends upon what kind of e&e


quote:
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Originally posted by MelancholyMutt
...
When using a bugout bag... grab bag and run away from danger... at your first safe rest period, remove the very important objects and place in secure pockets. Place knives in pockets and belt. ID,money, cellphone, firestarting stuff, and whatever you deem to be crucial to survival on your person, preferably in buttoned pockets.
...
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That reminds me. The M-65 military Field Jacket is amazing for it's storage capacity, while still looking like a civilian jacket.
It looks like a winter jacket, but if you take out the liners it becomes a spring jacket; or becomes a winter jacket if you leave in the liners.
Either way, you have a LOT of storage capacity with that coat. As well as superb protection.

Added: The M-65 Field Jacket is around $70 USD w/ liners. $60 without liners.


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Posted by im2smrt4u on 10-14-2002 01:50 AM:
Re: It depends upon what kind of e&e


quote:
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Originally posted by MelancholyMutt
I prefer subdued commercial colors... black, dark blues and dark reds. Nothing high speed, nothing bright, nothing military. All these attract attention. A Daypack is best for urban areas. The bigger the bag gets, the more attention it grabs, the smaller the chance that you will have it when you need it. One may also tend to fill it to capacity and thus slow your "bugout". A pack running about 2000 cubic inches with several pockets for different things. Your pack shoud weigh no more than thirty pounds. Include a waterproofing cover to preserve your gear, as well as prevent having to carry a few pounds of useless water.
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I use a Jansport Classic "Big Student" as my book bag. Do you think it would make a nice bugout bag? Many other students in the area use the same pack, so it wouldn't look out of place. Do you think I should pick up another for this purpose?

EDIT: I would link you, but the jansport site uses a flash interface that masks the URL, so you'll have to check it out for yourself.


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Posted by adamlau on 10-14-2002 01:59 AM:
Strider Spear Point or Emerson SOCFK-A

Either one of the above listed models are fine. Don't forget a nice sharpening kit.


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Posted by MelancholyMutt on 10-14-2002 02:07 AM:
Hey, this thread is supposed to be about knives for a bugout bag...

I'm gonna repost this in Gadgets under the header "bugout bags".
 
Alright, now that we have our own thread, what do you think of the pack I suggested? Its very non-descript (sp?) and would fit in well in an urban environment. Another plus is that it is very inexpensive!
 
It makes the perfect bag, if, you can fit everything you need in there. The bugout bag is essentially an extended survival kit. The main difference is the circumstances in which it is used.

The first time I was introduced to the concept of the "bugout" bag was when I was staying in a foreign country. It had everything I needed to get to an airport and catch the first flight home. In it, was one change of clothing, passport, two fresh (no owed balance) credit cards, cash, maps and whatever trinkets I deemed valuable. Also, a small survival kit with everything I needed for two days.
Along with that, what I deemed very important is a map with routes to the local airports, seaport, and the fare to get to any of them by bus, train, or taxi. Also, pre-researched instructions on how to get to those locations by foot, and methods of leaving the country. I also had a list of companies and numbers and people who were sympathetic to Americans or at least the color of money. Essentially a bugout bag is everything you need to get you home if for whatever reason, you had to leave and were not afforded the time to go retrieve any of your belongings. The bag was always kept nearby, although it was not necessary to keep it on your person at all times. A backpack is generally most convenient, but some find a small duffel or tote bag to be preferable.

One more note... I also kept a cheap seiko watch in my bag since I normally wear a complicated swiss watch. This would allow me to draw less attention due to my watch, and should I be in a bad enough jam, to use the better watch as trading material.
 
Good information Mutt...

One problem I'm having is first aid. Is there any way to build your own proper first aid kit without buying large quantities of individual items from a major distributor or in tiny quantities from a retailer?

I think what I'm trying to say is "How can I make my own first aid kit without spending a fortune?"
 
and it may not be the best way...

I took some time to buy bits and pieces and in several weeks, I had my kit. As long as you're in an urban area, all you need is money in your pocket and you're fine. First aid supplies can be had for a few dollars. So, you take that opportunity to slowly build your kit.

One day, I needed band-aids (or some call them plasters or strip bandages), so I bought a big box. Some went into my cabinet, and a few went into a small pelican watertight case. Another day, I had a few extra dollars, I bought a box of gauze pads, a small bottle of iodine, and a few latex gloves... total cost, under ten US dollars. A few days later, while buying groceries, I bought some triple antibiotic ointment (neosporin) which can also be used as firestarters when combined with gauze pads or cotton balls. If you're in college, you can always show up to the infirmary or clinic and ask for a few single use first aid items.

oh, almost forgot.. another thing that is very important for a bugout bag... good socks and Moleskin!... again, in a bugout, you must be prepared to travel some distance by foot.

In a very short time, and certainly before you may need to bug out or trek into the woods, your kit will be complete. I include a few prescription painkillers, antihistimines, anti-dairrheals and antibiotics as well, but that option is up to you.
 
Originally posted by MelancholyMutt
If you're in college, you can always show up to the infirmary or clinic and ask for a few single use first aid items.
Click to expand...

Good idea! My college has a "free clinic" that I could check out!
 
good advice here

trying to look normal and fit in with others is very important.

I know guys who have alice packs for BOB'S and I think they are nuts

If there is something awful going on inthe area do you want to look like a wacko?

Are you up on your first aid? Often when you take a class they'll give you a small basic kit.

Good luck
 
If you're on prescription or OTC medication, make sure you have some extra packed along somewhere.

Also keep the weather/seasons in mind.

Bailing out in the winter will require different needs, such as clothing, than in the summer. Extra layers like fleece tops and longjohns add extra bulk. Many of us wear "reasonable" shoes most of the winter, which would fall short should a cross-country trek be required to stay safe. Depending on where one lives, access to snowshoes (in the vehicle or the closet at home) could make a difference.

If you're bugging in a vehicle, basic tools, belts, and fluids should be packed. Vehicles offer the ability to carry more "stuff", but there should be a core of essentials that can be separated out and taken along if leaving the vehicle is required.

Based on where one lives, contents may need to be tailored to suit the most likely scenarios. Tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, civil unrest, terrorist attacks, consideration should be given to what could be more "common" in a particular area. More difficult to plan for are events like train derailments with chemical releases.

A little bit of planning ahead can help better the odds of a minor inconvenience from becoming a near emergency.

I stretch the definition of a bugout bag to what could be considered a "contingency bag" to include instances not particularly an "emergency".

I've gone so far as to pack my carry-on baggage with extra socks and underwear or a minimal change of clothes that could get me through a couple of days. I'll add basic toiletries, a bottle of water and snacks. I've been stranded overnight in airports before, twice with my checked baggage still sitting in the belly of a plane somewhere on the tarmac. Not fun, but also not an "unliveable" experience.

Also, having an airline lose important "stuff" isn't as much trouble knowing that you can go a couple of extra days while they look for your baggage, or take your time purchasing what you may need without the panic of immediacy.
 
Not too far off subject, but regarding the anti-biotics, everytime ask for a small supply or a prescription from my doctor, whom I have a very good relationship with, I get a cocked eyebrow, a smirk and a "Let's move on, shall we" It's tough explaining the BOB concept, and when I do I get "A little paranoid, aren't we?" To which I usually respond "Read the papers lately, Doc?"

Anyone have the same problem?

Al
 
Tell your doctor that you're going on a trip to a S.E. Asian country. Third world countries especially some asian nations are notorious for not having western/modern medicine.

Get a sympathetic doctor. I've gotten a good supply of Augmentin and some sort of anti-diarrheal this way.

Also, I have "heard" that in NYC, it is very easy to get "street prescriptions" for painkillers all the way from Tylenol 3 to Morphine. It's just costly, and hard to find.
 
MM,

Your second choice is about the best. Both my GP and cardiologist are chinese. I'd hate to risk a post SE Asia trip interrogation on what I saw when I was there "Uh, alot of pagodas". Like I said, were kinda close. I'd look like a dope.

As for the street deal, I see mostly weed dealers. Imagine walking up to some Rasta dude that's mumbling "smoke, smoke" and saying "No, but I'll take 10 Augmentin if you have them. Pen-Vee K's will do if you don't."

#2 is perfect. Thanks, I'll give it a try.

Al
 
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