Bugout washers

bermo

bermo

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
393
Got a bugout with aftermarket Ti scales, when assembled and pivot bolt loose to where you can thrust it back and forth, the action is still to tight. I can not get it to drop like my Griptillians.

All other scale hardware is tight, but action gets better when I loosen the lockbar screw. Maybe the standoffs or scales are at a different tolerance than the OEM?

My thought is to rub the washers on a stone to make them thinner by .001 or so, then use the pivot for take up the slack.

Also, anybody have a source for new washers in case i screw this up?
 
In my experience, the bugouts are very finicky and can be challenging to get set up just right. You can try backing off the body screws just a tick and go from there.

Concerning the washers: if you just sand them slightly you shouldn’t have any issues as far as ruining them.
 
My Hogue RSK Grip absolutely drops shut and has zero play, that is my idea of what I like. I know they are different blades and manufacturers, etc, but both have the same lock style and similar washer set up. My thought is the body screws should be tight and locked down etc, then the pivot should adjust the blade action and play.

But, I can't even get the the blade to drop with the OEM plastic scales that the Bugout comes with.

Pretty new to this level of knives but I'm gonna look into it a bit because it seems like it could be better.

I will measure the washer thickness and record it. Then sand it down until I get a little play in the blade with standoffs completely tight. Measure washer thickness and record it.. Not quite sure how the scale machining on the inside looks ,and it will probably make this less than straight forward, but I'm gonna try this little experiment and see where it goes, new washers can't be too hard to find if I mess it up.
 
Dudleyd said:
In my experience, the bugouts are very finicky and can be challenging to get set up just right. You can try backing off the body screws just a tick and go from there.

Concerning the washers: if you just sand them slightly you shouldn’t have any issues as far as ruining them.
Click to expand...
Yes, the tension of the screws that fasten the grips can affect the action. I learned that lesson on my Blade HQ 535-2002.
 
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So I agree the scale / standoff hardware has an effect on the blade action. But I don't think it should.

So, I went ahead and took my Bugout apart, measured stuff, sanded stuff, and put it back together.

First off, the washers seem to have a 'smooth' side and 'other' side. Like when they punched the ID and OD of the washer it caused a tiny edge to roll. I kept the 'smooth' side towards the blade during assembly, but I didn't pay close enough attention when it came apart so I have no idea which way it came.

I measured the standoff - to - washer @ .041 with a dept mic. Both OEM and Flytanium (China made) were within .0005. Both sides. Looks consistent.

20220614_112154_HDR[1563].jpg

Measured both washers @ .0200 - .0203 Pretty much the same.

Measured the standoffs @ .1313 (blue OEM) and .1365 (Pacific & Sons) micarta backspacer. NOTE: the standoff by the pivot is OEM @.1310
20220614_114142_HDR[1562].jpg

The blade, plus both washers (which sit inside of the lockbar plates) is .130 Just a touch smaller than the standoffs. So I decided to sand down each washer by .0005 to give it a total of .001 more clearance and adjustability. I first used and med grit (600?) stone and did some figure eights. Then to 1000 and then to a Hutsuls Strop with green compound. Measured each washer to make sure I took the same amount off.

One thing I did not measure (I should have) is the thickness of the lockbar plates that are nested in the scales. Next time I take it apart I get that number.

EDIT** Went back and measured it @ .0395 per side

Reassembled knife with KPL at the pivot, tightened all scale / standoff hardware equally tight.

Had a slight bit of play at the blade and it dropped shut. :thumbsup:

Adjusted the play out with the pivot only.

Now the action is better that before. Not a super drop shut like a bearing pivot, but much, much better. It'll get better after it breaks a bit more.

- Looking back, if the washers had the tiny rolled edge towards the blade that could have an influence on the action. But giving the blade / washers a little extra clearance, then taking up that clearance with a pivot adjustment seems to have helped my problem.

Cheers!

- JB
 
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What I have found are several things that affect the action on the bugout. First, is making sure the liners are straight. I have found they sometimes have a slight bow in one of both of them. This can cause issues the washers and tension when everything is tightened down. It is easy to straighten them by hand, they are easily bent. I use a vice to straighten them and check their true on a piece of glass.

Second is scales, I have found scales machining to be off slightly, specifically on some aftermarket G-10 scales. Aluminum and Ti scales have always worked flawlessly for me.

Lastly, I put oversized, larger diameter Phospher bronze washers in. This gives a bit more tolerance when tightening the pivot. More surface area, helping to alleviate side to side play.

The two current Bugouts I have are on factory custom shop and SMKW G-10 scales, with oversized washers. The blade swings freely on both, and drops free with zero play in any direction.

The washers can be sourced from Etsy and are around $5 per set.


TXPO
 
Agreed on the washers.

When I sanded them down it took a bit for the side to get 100% contact, that tells me they are not completely flat. I am curious if anyone else has noticed the the 'smooth' side vs. the 'rolled edge' side of the washers.

Texaspoff said:
Lastly, I put oversized, larger diameter Phospher bronze washers in.
Click to expand...

Did you noticed a difference on either side of the edge?

After I sanded and polished the (stock) washers, then put some aftermarket Ti scales on it, the action was greatly improved. I would like to think it was my sand / polish job on the washers but it may have been because of the washers and how they were in to begin with.

I will definitely get some of the oversize washers and pay close attention to see if the rolled edge is on one side. Thanks for heads up.

-JB
 
bermo said:
Agreed on the washers.

When I sanded them down it took a bit for the side to get 100% contact, that tells me they are not completely flat. I am curious if anyone else has noticed the the 'smooth' side vs. the 'rolled edge' side of the washers.



Did you noticed a difference on either side of the edge?

After I sanded and polished the (stock) washers, then put some aftermarket Ti scales on it, the action was greatly improved. I would like to think it was my sand / polish job on the washers but it may have been because of the washers and how they were in to begin with.

I will definitely get some of the oversize washers and pay close attention to see if the rolled edge is on one side. Thanks for heads up.

-JB
Click to expand...
Both side of the washers looked clean. They both had pretty squared edges, neither was rounded off like the factory washers. I didn't sand mine down, but installed them and went down the road. I did do some maintenance the other day and noticed they were smooth on the blade side with nice even wear.

It is very easy to tune a drop shut with no blade play action with them.



TXPO
 
Texaspoff said:
What I have found are several things that affect the action on the bugout. First, is making sure the liners are straight. I have found they sometimes have a slight bow in one of both of them. This can cause issues the washers and tension when everything is tightened down. It is easy to straighten them by hand, they are easily bent. I use a vice to straighten them and check their true on a piece of glass.

Second is scales, I have found scales machining to be off slightly, specifically on some aftermarket G-10 scales. Aluminum and Ti scales have always worked flawlessly for me.

Lastly, I put oversized, larger diameter Phospher bronze washers in. This gives a bit more tolerance when tightening the pivot. More surface area, helping to alleviate side to side play.

The two current Bugouts I have are on factory custom shop and SMKW G-10 scales, with oversized washers. The blade swings freely on both, and drops free with zero play in any direction.

The washers can be sourced from Etsy and are around $5 per set.


TXPO
Click to expand...

bermo said:
Agreed on the washers.

When I sanded them down it took a bit for the side to get 100% contact, that tells me they are not completely flat. I am curious if anyone else has noticed the the 'smooth' side vs. the 'rolled edge' side of the washers.



Did you noticed a difference on either side of the edge?

After I sanded and polished the (stock) washers, then put some aftermarket Ti scales on it, the action was greatly improved. I would like to think it was my sand / polish job on the washers but it may have been because of the washers and how they were in to begin with.

I will definitely get some of the oversize washers and pay close attention to see if the rolled edge is on one side. Thanks for heads up.

-JB
Click to expand...

I’m looking for oversized phosphor bronze washers to put into my new Bugout 535BK-4. It arrived with an atrocious action - can’t be flicked open and I have to FOLD it shut!😂🤣 I bought it to customize with some parts I’ve been collecting so the arrival condition doesn’t bother me much; since I knew I’d be taking it apart anyway. The ONE thing I haven’t found is a set of oversized washers that’ll work. Since you both referenced oversized washers, would you mind providing a link to someone selling some really good ones? On Etsy is fine (searching for Bugout oversized washers didn’t yield any results for me) or anywhere on the web.

Does anyone know if there are any suitable washers that have the circular holes surrounding the central hole for the pivot? My Herman flippers (some of my most favorite knives) use these type of washers and I feel like the little holes help retain lubricant over plain washers. I’d love to try some if I could find them.

Thanks so much!! Anyone who reads this, please feel free to chime in with suggestions!
 
Bugout (to be more specific, 535-3) is the ONLY Axis lock folder that I can't achieve a free dropping blade while having zero side-to-side blade play. It's been very frustrating. Maybe I should try out the oversized washers as shared above.

bermo bermo - could you confirm that these washers are bigger/wider than the factory ones?
 
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Both the stock washers and the "oversize" washers measure @ .020 thick.

Center bore for stock BM @ .190 and .195 for the "oversize".

OD for stock BM @ .355 and .500 for the "oversize".

Here is a visual:

OS washers.jpg
 
bermo said:
Both the stock washers and the "oversize" washers measure @ .020 thick.

Center bore for stock BM @ .190 and .195 for the "oversize".

OD for stock BM @ .355 and .500 for the "oversize".

Here is a visual:

View attachment 1905010
Click to expand...
Thanks mate I think the larger outer diameter of the afternmarket washers will most likely solve my problem. :thumbsup:
 
Drilled a couple holes in the oversized washers, but I'm not happy with the results. The washers tend to bend and flex under the tool pressure from the drill. I need to make some kind of jig that supports the washer but allows the drill to go through the washer, seems like a lot of work for what I'm actually accomplishing.
PXL_20220826_182523757.jpg


Then I found these. Seems like a better way to go.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/129243...0:1292432001&click_sum=31664e55&ref=related-1

Sent a message to try and get the actual thickness, OD, and ID.

-JB
 
I just want to share that I received the aftermarket larger washers, polished them, and replaced the stock washers on my 535-3 with them. After some tweaking, I can feel the action of the knife is now much better. Not quite drop shutty yet but I expect it will eventually (based on my experience with other Axis lock folders).
 
Could you fasten the washers to a piece of wood for the drilling? I have seen aftermarket washers with cutouts that are supposed to hold lubricant. I am curious how much improvement these things could give.
 
I think the stock washers on the Bugout are .300x197x.020. The over sized washers are .500x197x.020.
knifekits is where I got mine.
Fast shipping and they do make a world of difference on the Bugouts.
My 535-3 was kinda sloppy till I added these.
The measurements are the same on the Bailout.
 
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