Building my first forge/burner... would someone mind answering a couple quick questions for me

A

axlfoley

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Jul 7, 2018
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The type laid out in the plans from this youtube video

Also loosely following the instructions from http://www.instructables.com/id/how-to-build-a-gas-forge-burner/

I'm using a 1-1/4" to 3/4" bell reducer (with a 1/8 brass nipple through it)... which connects to a 3/4" x 10" pipe.

first question is that the plans call for 8".. hardware store didn't have any 3/4"x8"... is there a downside to having it too long? (should i just use it the way it it is, or cut off 2"?)


second, some verions i see people screwing a a 3/4" to 1" bell reducer on the other end (like this.. example 1: https://i.imgur.com/Hsfr5F4.png )

other versions i see a 1"x3" pipe that slides over the 3/4" burner pipe and has been flared out about 1-1/2" at the end
(like this, example 2:
https://i.imgur.com/undefined.jpg

other versions have the 3" pipe on with no flare
(like this, example 3: https://i.imgur.com/p9MJMkc.jpg

other versions, from some youtube examples I've seen some people don't bother putting anything at all on the end?)

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sooo..

question 1:

does the 10 inch burner pipe i have vs the 8" in the plans matter (should i just cut 2" off the end? or is 10" fine?).. if someone could give me a quick run down of what happens if your pipe is too long/short i'd appreciate it. my googling is failing me while searching for that answer.

and question 2:

which of those three examples should i use for the end of the burner? just screw a 3/4" to 1" bell reducer on the end.. or cut a 1"x3" piece of pipe to slide on the end.... or should i put on a 1"x3" pipe and also put in the effort of flaring the end out with a mapp gas torch and a hammer? (my best idea)

im getting all sorts of conflicting and confusing info about this all over the internet and youtube. help/input is much appreciated!

thanks!

-------
ps: if i'm overlooking anything, please feel free to point it out! also one burner should be enough, right?

pps:
If it matters, I'm using an old propane standard US 20gal propane tank for the forge, it's like 14" long and 12"ish tall(roughly.. whatever the demensions of a standard US propane tank are that people hook up to their gas grills). i bought a Ceramic Fiber Blanket 8# Density, 2600F (1" x 12"x 24") from amazon (awaiting) that i was going to coat with a mix of furnace cement and perlite... i was planning on just the one burner i think. (also bought a 20psi high pressure regulator on amazon)

followup question: is that ceramic blanket and the furnace cement going to be enough? I'm on a pretty tight budget.. so i hope so.

also is the one burner enough probably? (again, i hope? although making a second one wouldn't be that big of a deal)

cheers! any help would be really really appriciated!
 
oh also i hope i asked this in the right place.. i used the search and saw old posts of people asking somewhat related questions... please let me know if this is not the appropriate area tho (i've been a lurker here for a while and learned most of what I know from reading other threads here.. but this is my first post/questions i was unable to find clear answers to so i finally signed up. i just want to make sure i didn't break any rules or post in the wrong spot on my first post haha) please let me know if i need to be pointed in a different direction!

cheers
 
Welcome Axlfoley.
You are in the right place.

Length isn't too critical, but I would suggest you cut it down to 8". You don't want threads on the end anyway.

A flare isn't really needed. Just have the end of the burner tube go to just shy of the chamber wall. It should not stick out.

The standard grill tank is 5 gallon/20 pounds.

Probably too late now, but you can buy a good burner with regulator and hose from Atlas forge ready to go. It is hard to make one much cheaper that they sell a good burner. No adjustment needed - plug and play.

Yes, an inch of kao-wool and a 1/4" of satanite will work. ITC-100 adds a bit, but not enough to matter for most folks.

Unless you are building a BIG forge, one burner is all you need. Even damascus welding forges usually only have one burner.

Aside - my ringtone is Axle F ( Axle Foley's theme).
 
thank you so much! (and for taking the time to answer!) i was a bit stuck on what step to take next/what direction to go in... i really really appreciate you clearing that up for me! (i mean, the first one i figure is a certain amount of trial and error anyway.. I got into this about two months ago.... so i'm still very new.. i'm trying to take in as much knowledge as much as possible, but every new fact i learn is mostly me just learning how much i still have to learn haha).

Also yes I just looked up the atlas forge burner/regulator and i am kicking myself a bit for not knowing that soon. on the bright side i'm figuring out how it works ... although hopefully it will work (i'll find out soon.. and my next post may very well be asking "what did i screw up?" lol.)

i really really appreciate your response. (anyone with axl f as their ring tone is clearly a friend of mine haha)

cheers mate!
 
No wuckers, I'm sure she'll be apples. (If you understand that I know where you live)

Fill out your profile with location and such. It will help a lot with others giving advice and offering help and suppliers.

You could be an Aussie living in Canberra, a Canuck in New Brunswick, a Brit in Southampton, an ex-pat from any of those places living in LA, or just a US chap who loves binge-watching Paul Hogan movies.

Stacy Elliott Apelt, FSA Scot
 
axlfoley said:
im getting all sorts of conflicting and confusing info about this all over the internet and youtube.
Click to expand...
If you want good info look at the top of the shoptalk forum and there is a sticky thread called all the good info you want in one place
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
No wuckers, I'm sure she'll be apples. (If you understand that I know where you live)

Fill out your profile with location and such. It will help a lot with others giving advice and offering help and suppliers.

You could be an Aussie living in Canberra, a Canuck in New Brunswick, a Brit in Southampton, an ex-pat from any of those places living in LA, or just a US chap who loves binge-watching Paul Hogan movies.

Stacy Elliott Apelt, FSA Scot
Click to expand...

Just a chap from the US who likes paul hogan and metal working lol. (are most people here not from the states?)

Also if you don't mind, I have one more small question I couldn't find the answer to (plus advice/input from someone who knows what they're doing is invaluable to me right now haha)

I've seen a lot of burner designs where people used mig welding tips.... and from what i understand the purpose of them is higher velocity propane stream i think?

Is there any reason why I should (or should not) use a mig welding tip instead of a simple pilot hole drilled into the brass nipple? (also couldn't a higher velocity propane stream potentially cause there to be more fuel than oxygen and end up running "rich" (i think that's the term?) is there anything about this specific design of burner that would make a pilot hole a better option (or just negligible maybe?)

yay/nay on that? if it makes a big enough difference it'd be silly to not spend an extra $8 bucks for a pack of them and do it that way, it doesn't seem like much extra work (i've put this much effort in so far, i suppose i want to make it as good as possible)


thanks again! (i'm pretty sure this is the last question i have to bother you with for at least several days haha. i do genuinely appreciate your help, this forum is fantastic)

--
ps: i tried to fill out the basic info in my profile with location and whatnot like you suggested, but it's not showing up next to my posts like it does for other people.. i'll have to play around with these settings some more a bit later
 
Good on ya for doin' your homework.

Drilling and tapping the hole in the gas feed pipe and putting a MIG tip on has several advantages:
1) It makes for a very precise orifice. This creates a better venturi and a better burning flame. A hole drilled in a curved pipe will be rather inexact.
2) It injects the gas stream in a very well aligned direction, as said above, a hole in a pipe will not make a straight gas jet. The jet going straight down the burner manifold will make for a better air draw ( venturi).
3) It allows changing the tips when they get clogged, or to experiment with more or less gas flow.

Most folks use a #30 tip for a general use burner. I have heard that the tapered tips (Lincoln???) may draw a slightly better venturi that the standard bullet shape tip, but I doubt it really matters much.

BTW, No wuckers, I'm sure she'll be apples means -"No problem, everything should come out right."
 
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I made one of these burners and it worked ok, but I did run into a problem when I moved to a higher altitude. I would definitely get the MIG tips, you'll be able to tune your forge to work better at the altitude you live at...
 
howdy... holy jeebus i just realized i started this project in june and posted here in early july. i can't believe it's alsready october (busy summer....now i ca focus on this again!)

. i'm finally getting around to actually finishing up the important parts of the forge


so..i have a few quick questions before i proceed (i think haha)... and i sincerely thank you all for your help so far.. i plan on spending more time here when i start getting better at this and now that i have more time. (especially to stacey, thank you for welcoming me and not making me feel like a dummy and offering your help and following up too! i have been lurking for a long time trying to absorb as much knowledge as i can ..but i feel like i need your help one more time before i proceed to make sure im not about to do something wrong on the final steps!)

here is an image that helps illistrate my questions/progress better than i can describe i think

(please click here to enlarge if you cant read the text...the forge on the left is a screen cap from youtube and my questions..the pic on the right is the progress of my forge before i line the aowool and whatnot next: https://i.imgur.com/uMMs79S.jpg )

uMMs79S.jpg


i am sincerely really honestly thankfu....just for the help youve given so far. but some clarification here on these final things i cant quite find on google or youtube or the forum search would be awesome :)

cheers!
 
I don't recommend using the brick as the only thing in the bottom. I prefer to put the wool all the way around and then set thin slabs of brick on the wool.

The filler at the bottom in the image is to make it flat - it could be any refractory, or a shaped piece of soft firebrick. Most folks just use some extra wool to make the floor flat.

Firebrick is a widely used term. There are several types. The one you want is the insulating type, either K23 or K28. You can cut and shape these with a hack saw. The hard type that are found at many stores are for use in wood stoves, and aren't the ones we use in forges for the floor. If used as the forge floor, they take a long time to heat up. They are also too thick for the job in a small forge.

If using hard firebrick, the best method is to put the brick in the bottom of the forge shell, fill in along the sides with scraps of wool or castable refractory, and then lay the wool liner over the brick. The floor can be just satanite ( put it a little thicker on the floor than on the sides).
There is a thinner and harder firebrick called Kiln Shelving that many use as the floor in a forge. It is more robust than soft firebrick and lasts longer.

Either soft or hard brick can also be used as "doors" to block the opening in the front and/or back. This allows making different size openings easily.
 
thanks so much, i have spent dozens of hours trying to research and figure it out on my own (i try not to be that guy to ask the questions you've probably answered thousands of times by now and figure out as much as possible before i finally decided i needed your guidance on these last few details lol...but i can't tell you how much i appreciate your reply (and quick too!). you just cleared up so much confusion and cleared up pretty much everything i've been going nuts trying to research (a lot of people on other websites lke to give a lot of bad and conflicting advice haha)

i think i'm ready to go now.. but i do have two quick follow up questions though (hopefully the last and my next reply will be my finished masterpiece haah

well first, i'm like 90% sure that firebrick i have is made out of asbestos (based on where i found it and the age of the house....part of a half built walkway underneath a rotted out deck i was tearing apart for a friend that was built back in the mid 1970's....it is my understanding asbestos was pretty popular to put in everything back then. at first i thought hat was a hazard, but someone suggested it might actually be ideal for it's insulatingrefractory properties if it is...and not as dangerous as i first assumed as long as i put a coating of the satanite on it to prevent it from getting scratched and cracked... do you have any thoughts on that (good, bad, absolutely idiotic idea haha). i am inclined to use it for budget reasons because i dont have anywhere nearby that sells the soft bricks (or the money to buy them online right now...unless you think i should and prioritize that purchase over the itc-100..i think i can only afford one at the moment...but im eager to get this finished too! oh also another reason i like that brick is because it just about lines up perfectly level with the holes i cut in the front and rear...which was just a nice coincidence not intentional. i obviously trust your judgement and will take your advice if you have a strong opinion one way or the other. .

i and read that kiln shelf is ideal, but due to budget restrictions i was going to order the itc-100 next..and eventually i was going to order or find some kiln shelf last...so i guess my question is if i use that big firebrick... would just placing a piece of kiln shelf on top of the brick work well? (as far as thermal refractory properties go... would that allow the forge to heat up faster and compensate for the brick underneath...or am i understanding how that works wrong in my head?)


(i would eventually buy the kiln shelf in a couple weeks when i have the spare money i suppose..but in the meantime i could get it functional)

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tl;dr: what are your thoughts on doing it much like the way you described using the current hard firebrick as the floor (it's 9inches x 2.5 x 4.5 i think btw..and nice coincidence that it lines up just perfectly with the front and rear holes i cut so everything would be nice and level) , and placing a piece of kiln shelf on top of the brick + keeping in mind the brick is more likely than not made out of asbestos...which i figured i'd put a coating of the satanite on it to prevent it from scratching or breaking..and the kiln shelf would be on top of it too when i get around to ordering it)



in my head i imagined that being a good idea for multiple reasons..not something i originally planned but kind of thought of it as went along... but by all means..if thats an awful idea please dont hesitate to say so haha.

and seriously thank you again.. i am more or less ready to put this together... but wanted to run thse questions by you first.... im essentially just leaning on your experience now for the best possible way to get this baby finished and fired up...and hopefully i can start paying forward some of this knowledge to others soon!
 
I am willing to guarantee that there is no asbestos in your brick. Also, if it was in a deck support I am willing to guarantee it isn't firebrick.

I would suggest you buy the proper K23 or K28 bricks and use them along with the wool ... and skip the ITC-100. On a mall forge it doesn't matter much. You can always add it later, as it is a final coating.
 
awesome, again i really appreciate you clearing this stuff up for me. it's a tremendous help.

(and i'm going to take your word and assume you obviously know much better than i do about this.. but i thought i'd show a closeup of the brick i found under the deck.. it was very out of place.. someone i was with told me it was a firebrick so i took their word for it...and their gues about the asbestos thing just because it has been there since at least 1975ish... the demension 9x4.5x2.5 inches seem to match up to what google says are typical demension of some fire bricks...along with the off-white color of it.

the imprint either says ww00 or 00MM (im nt sure which way is up)

top photo is it and a regular normal red brick next to it for comparison (size/color)
picture below is it in my forge to give another perspective (before i welded on the door and burner port and whatnot)

(i was just going off my friends word that it was a fire brick.... i probably trust yours more though haha..

do you think it's worth keeping for this (or maybe a future reason...even if not for this project) or is that just an oversized regular brick and i should toss it out? (cheers!)

7uj9RwX.jpg
 
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