Bummed Out by CRKT

[Confederate]

I've had these problems with enough CRKT knives that I'm wondering whether it's just me or the bloody blades.

It's possible that I just don't understand chisel grind knives, but even though my pet M16-14SF feels sharp, I've found that it doesn't cut paper; rather, it cuts maybe an inch or two, then binds, then begins ripping. I've taken to doing all my paper/package cutting with the blade's tip.

My other AUS8 knives have no problems neatly slicing through paper, but then they're all V-grinds. So it's either the steel or the chisel-grind configuration that's to blame. But then, I have a Cold Steel Gunsite 5-incher (AUS8) that cuts paper very well. The CRKTs do seem to be a bit courser in their blades, and they're made in the U.S., which means the steel should be of a fairly good quality.

Does anyone else have this problem with CRKT knives? Or do you have any ideas what's amiss? I also have the same problems with my Desert Cruiser.

Thanks!

.

 

[Joshua J.]

CRKT runs their steel soft.
It will be extra hard to remove the burr (finish the edge), and it won't hold an edge as well as harder steel.
I'm not sure what exactly is happening with your knife, but the first thing I would try is to put a micro bevel on your edge.

Just take the finest sharpening implement you have and do a few very light swipes at an angle slightly steeper than you sharpen at.
This should, in theory, put a fresh edge on the blade and hopefully remove any burr that may have been left from your last sharpening job.

Hope that helps.

 

[SIFU1A]

go to emersonknives.com and see the tutorial on sharpening CG's and do like they suggest, and practice some, a CG will get sharp enough to slice paper i promise ya, but its a little different than a V grind, for sure.

imho CRKT's are easier to sharpen with the softer steels than say 154 or something like it,

BUT, imho, if ya are expecting it to slice paper like a "v" grind (like on your voyager, for instance) ya probably aint gonna be happy with it, probably wont do that without a rebevel to make it like a zero bevel grind.

it will be sharp enough for most stuff though.

 

[Confederate]

Thanks for your comments.

Why does CRKT run its steel soft? Is it intentional? As of now, I've written these off as just weapons and little more, though using the points to cut adds some utilitarian value.

Is the softness solely for corosion resistance?

.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

... and they're made in the U.S., which means the steel should be of a fairly good quality.

Is the softness solely for corosion resistance?

Made in USA has nothing to do with steel quality.

Softness might help with absorbing shock or making sharpening easier. it has nothing to do with corrosion.

I would think Joshua J. is probably right, that you just need to do a better job learning to sharpen a chisel grind, and especially to removing the burr.

My other AUS8 knives have no problems neatly slicing through paper, but then they're all V-grinds. So it's either the steel or the chisel-grind configuration that's to blame. But then, I have a Cold Steel Gunsite 5-incher (AUS8) that cuts paper very well.

Your Gunsite is a v grind.

 

[longbow]

I don't think I have had that problem at all with any CRKT knives I have owned. I recently started carrying at work the M4 . It is the Carson designed look alike. The edge was very sharp when I rec. it but if you looked at it in full sun light it had like a wire edge on it. So being the knife nut I am I resharpened it on my Lansky at 20 deg one one side and 25 on the other using heavy oil on the med stone. Took a bit of time actually which surprised me but now it has a wicked hard edge I like to call it. No burr, no wire edge and I think it looks better. Never much carried this knife and don't know why really but I carry it at work now and probably the smoothest opener I have. This is the non assisted version too. keepem sharp

 

[SIFU1A]

Thanks for your comments.

Why does CRKT run its steel soft? Is it intentional? As of now, I've written these off as just weapons and little more, though using the points to cut adds some utilitarian value.

Is the softness solely for corosion resistance?

.

most CRKT's are soft because CRKT uses cheap steel (ie AUS4 or AUS6) in most of there products, the same steel also imho corrodes easier than say 154 or S30V (or many others).

dont get me wrong they will work fine for most folks but ya cant compare them to 154, VG10, etc.

a few CRKT's (the kasper pro comes to mind) have a little better steel like AUS8, but they are the ecxception not the rule.

imho the steel really doesnt matter much for a SD knife as ya shouldnt use them for anything but SD, no utility, and even '4 is gonna be ok for slicing someone up ie it isnt gonna get dull too fast from that usually.

utility? for most folks '4 would be fine, but most educated knife nutz aint gonna like it lol, they wont like it for SD either.

ya can get '4 as sharp as S30V (if the knives are beveled the same anyway) and its softer thus easier to sharpen, but its gonna dull faster with use.

 

[pogo]

I gave up on CRKT a long time ago. Get an Okapi carbon blade for pure cutting pleasure.

 

[Confederate]

I would think Joshua J. is probably right, that you just need to do a better job learning to sharpen a chisel grind, and especially to removing the burr.

Thanks. I worked on my Desert Cruiser last night and my M16, and it's clear I need some experience. I did get them sharper, but I had to go for some weird angles. I still have no idea what I'm doing. I've read the various FAQs and instructions at various sites and this has helped. I've gotten where I can cut paper without tearing, but I'm still not there yet. I think it was Cliff Stamp who recommended putting something under the right side of a Spyderco Sharpmaker to increase the angle. I have a CRKT Slidesharp that has plastic guides, but they seem made for V-grind knives. Strange for a company that makes so many chisel grind knives!

Your Gunsite is a v grind.

By George, you're right. No wonder it cut so well!

How difficult would it be to convert a chisel-grind to a double-grind? What's the best way to do it? I take it the edge of my chisel-grind knives are about 25 degrees. Would it be best to use a very course diamond stone with a clamped-blade sharpening system?

Most CRKT's are soft because CRKT uses cheap steel (ie AUS4 or AUS6) in most of there products, the same steel also imho corrodes easier than say 154 or S30V (or many others).

Do they use a cheaper AUS8 than their competitors? I've found AUS8 to be a fairly good steel...very easy to sharpen. Is it a fact that they run their steel soft? Has anyone ever run RC checks on them?

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Confed, you're on the right path. I think we get a bit hyper when it comes to our knives. Most people would think they're razors when we think we still have a way to go!

Don't fiddle with the Sharpmaker. If you raise one side, you lower the other, which means you have to keep shifting your adjustment or get nonsymmetric grinds. Besides, why go to all that effort when the Sharpmaker itself can get the job done so well, once you're used to it?

Cliffie liked to constantly play with edge angles. Don't fall into that trap. For a working edge, pick an angle and maintain it.

Chisel grinds have their place, and you can learn to sharpen them well. Don't be too quick to convert them to v grinds. Here's why: since the basic blade geometry is chisel, anything you do to the edge still leaves nonsymmetric sides behind that edge. What's the use of that?

You could re-do the unsharpened side to an angled flat grind ... or you could just buy a v grind for your next knife if that's what you prefer. If you do want to sharpen and sharpen your chisel grind edge so it converts to a v grind, yes, I would recommend a clamp system with diamond stones.

Most serrations are chisel ground, even on a basically v grind edge! ... just to make life more complicated.

What you may still need to learn is the stroke. When you put a blade to a sharpener, you should use a rhythmic, gentle, steady pressure. This avoids "hot spots" where bearing down more at one point than another leaves the edge irregular. Whether you work freehand, with a v sharpener, or a clamp system, set yourself up so you are comfortable and your hand and arm have a free and flexible motion. The blade and sharpener should be in contact but not forced against each other.

 

[44Magpie]

I've tried several CRKTs and gave up on them also. I put them in the same class as Gerber: B grade knives.

 

[Midwest Ninja]

I'd rather have a CRKT than Gerber....I had a screw fall out of my Paraframe I after just a few months of light use. And they have better sharpness out of the box.

Its a shame...I love the design of my Gerber...but the steel gets dull so fast, it could never be and EDC all on its own.

 

[Rich357]

Hi confederate,

Have you tried using a Lansky sharpener? They are very good at keeping the stone at the same angle. They can give you a very sharp edge.

I take a black magic marker and darken the edge so that I can see if the stone is contacting the edge at the correct angle. Or at least the angle
I want if I'm reforming the edge. Once I know it is at the correct angle I go about the sharpening process.

About the hardness of the steel in your blade, there may well be differences from blade to blade in the degree of hardness because the heat treating
may not be exactly the same for each blade. Although I'm sure they try to do a good job of heat treating each blade.

 

[SuroK]

i am considering paying for international postage to get my M16-12 sharpened to a razor edge.. its crap they they dont even tell you what angle to sharpen it at. or sell the tools..

 

[xxguitarist]

I've reprofiled my M series blades slightly, a comprimize between V and chisel, found it a bit more satisfactory.

 

[Nick Hyle]

The CRKTs do seem to be a bit courser in their blades, and they're made in the U.S., which means the steel should be of a fairly good quality.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong about the country of manufacture - are the knives marked 'Made in USA'? 99+% of CRKTS are made overseas, mostly in Taiwan. I'm pretty sure the M16-14SF is made in Taiwan.

Why does CRKT run its steel soft? Is it intentional?

Yes, it's intentional. The reason seems to be "because they are cheap b@st@rds".

CRKT makes some decent knives. But they made a decision a long time ago that they were going to try to make and sell cheap knives and try to convince people that they were good enough, rather than make the best knives they could and try to convince people to pay more for them.

CRKT is an honest company, and they stand behind their products. But when I buy a Benchmade, Spyderco, or Kershaw, I'm confident I'm buying a knife that the company tried their best to make excellent. When I occasionally buy a CRKT, a Gerber, an S&W, etc, I've got a pretty good idea that I'm buying a cheap knife that is no better than it has to be. They can be good bargains, decent performance at a reasonable price. But when you buy one you should not have any expectation that it will perform like a Benchmade, Spyderco, or Kershaw.

There ARE cheap knives that are excellent. CRKT, Gerber, etc, don't make them. Look at Mora or Opinel. Or for a much better than crap knife at a decent price, look at SOME import knives from Cold Steel and SOG's Fusion line.

 

[Confederate]

Confed, you're on the right path. I think we get a bit hyper when it comes to our knives. Most people would think they're razors when we think we still have a way to go!

Amen to that. Also, your other advice sounds right on, as usual. Just this weekend I've learned a lot. Now that my knives are shredding paper, I'm not so worried. I just get frustrated when it's supposed to cut and instead it rips and tears.

What you may still need to learn is the stroke. When you put a blade to a sharpener, you should use a rhythmic, gentle, steady pressure. This avoids "hot spots" where bearing down more at one point than another leaves the edge irregular.

Makes sense.

Have you tried using a Lansky sharpener? They are very good at keeping the stone at the same angle. They can give you a very sharp edge. I take a black magic marker and darken the edge so that I can see if the stone is contacting the edge at the correct angle. Or at least the angle I want if I'm reforming the edge.

No, but the Lansky is on my list of things to buy this year. The idea of darkening the edge is very good. At what angle do you sharpen the C-grind?

About the hardness of the steel in your blade, there may well be differences from blade to blade in the degree of hardness because the heat treating may not be exactly the same for each blade.

Undoubtedly. Enough people have said that CRKT runs their steel soft that it got me wondering if anyone's actually tested samples, or are they basing that opinion on the fact that they can't sharpen the C-grind knives?

I am considering paying for international postage to get my M16-12 sharpened to a razor edge. Its crap they they dont even tell you what angle to sharpen it at. Or sell the tools.

Yeah, it is a bizarre policy. It gets even stranger when they put the C-grind on the wrong side of the blade for right-handed users. When I'm cutting wood, for example, I'm holding the wood in my left hand and I cut with the knife in my right. Cutting down and away from me, I should have the beveled part (as I understand it) facing me and the flat side down under.

 

[Confederate]

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong about the country of manufacture - are the knives marked 'Made in USA'? 99+% of CRKTS are made overseas, mostly in Taiwan. I'm pretty sure the M16-14SF is made in Taiwan.

You're quite correct. Mine's an M16-14SFA.

CRKT makes some decent knives. But they made a decision a long time ago that they were going to try to make and sell cheap knives and try to convince people that they were good enough, rather than make the best knives they could and try to convince people to pay more for them.

Not only that, but I think they sometimes put more work into the handles than the blades. A lot of companies do that because quality can't always be judged from the blade, most of which are bead blasted.

When I occasionally buy a CRKT, a Gerber, an S&W, etc, I've got a pretty good idea that I'm buying a cheap knife that is no better than it has to be.

I don't go quite that far. CRKT has always used some good steels and have been making blades from AUS8 for a few years now. I wouldn't touch their AUS4 bladed knives.

Another thing, CRKT and Cold Steel reduce their prices when they go to cheaper steels. Gerber goes through more of an effort to disguise it and they frequently charge horrific prices for knives they...are you ready?...I'm about to coin a term...crummified. I mean, they think they're the Nikon of the knife world.

I like the M16-14SFA...I really do. But it's a weapon. Not a fine cutting tool. And if I had to buy it over again, well, I probably wouldn't. I'd probably buy a Cold Steel Recon 1 plain edge. It sharpens up with a couple of swacks on the rods, it has a strong lock and a good heft. But I opted with the CRKT because the Recon 1 has a grip that feels like sandpaper and I like the full hilt on the CRKT.

There ARE cheap knives that are excellent. CRKT, Gerber, etc, don't make them. Look at Mora or Opinel. Or for a much better than crap knife at a decent price, look at SOME import knives from Cold Steel and SOG's Fusion line.

Yes, indeed. Perhaps the finest is the Byrd line, especially the Cara Cara. Moras also have a great reputation, but are really fugly. S&W has surprised me lately, but with them, you know what? No one is amazed when they're junk, but if you get a great one, you are...amazed, that is. Sure much better than buying a Gerber, then finding out you bought a real peace of crap.

 

[neutronics]

The CRKTs do seem to be a bit courser in their blades, and they're made in the U.S., which means the steel should be of a fairly good quality.

Don't know about yours, my M16-14T says "Taiwan" right on the blade. FYI. BTW I'm new on the site... will be spending some hours here.

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

CRKT runs a full line of knives geared toward many buyers. They have mid range knives with very good materials for us snobs, and they have cheap knives with cheap steel geared towards non-knife freaks. All of their products that I own (they run the range) are acceptable for what they do. I have never had a problem with their liner locks like some here, and all of the knives have performed as they were meant to. In fact I own more CRKT than any other brand of knife (I own about 200 knives) and still want more of their offerings. In the end I feel they have a great variety of knives at acceptable prices that just may get more people interested in knives. Don't expect a $50 CRKT to be the same as your $150 Benchmade- it just is not a fair comparison.
My opinion only!