Business question - My first forge for sale at TWO online retailers!!!

Atlas Knife Company

Atlas Knife Company

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Feb 16, 2010
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This is a question for those that have/regularly produce items for sale by others.

One of the online retailers really likes one of my ideas and wanted me to produce them for sale at their online store. Any specific precautions I should be wary of when entering this type of arrangement? I'm delivering the items tomorrow morning because it's such a hassle to pack and ship heavy items, but if other stores like the item, this won't be practical. Obviously I shouldn't make any non-compete agreements. I priced the item without regard to shipping/packing, so I should add that to the price next time.


Scroll to post #13 to see my Atlas Mini forge, now for sale at USA Knifemaker Supply!!!
 
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G'day Charles,

I would get yourself some terms and conditions together mate. They need to state exactly what you plan on delivering and cover all extra costs involved. Think of it as a ass covering exercise.

This is an extract out of my T&C's (Its for the Labour Market but we also deal with tooling and such)

C. Travel Costs, Hire Car, Petrol and Sundries Costs

All costs that X are required to provide shall be charged at cost plus 15%. Sundries may include excess baggage for tooling, requested medical testing and other checks etc.

D. Materials

All materials that X are required to provide shall be charged at cost plus 15%.

E. Purchase Orders

It shall be a requirement that a current Purchase Order for the contract will be received no later than 7 working days prior to X incurring expenses for the project. In the absence of a valid Purchase Order prior to incurring costs, the customer agrees that the Rates, Terms and Conditions of this document shall apply.

F. Invoicing

All hours invoiced for shall be an account of hours expended from door to door and supported by a signed timesheet. Enforced days off site such as Safety Stand downs, RDO’s, Project delays, Swingshifts between night and day shifts, will attract a minimum of 8 hours pay per worker affected.
 
If the item you are manufacturing for wholesale has not been patented or at least patent applied for, there is nothing saying they cannnot take possession of the idea and manufacture the item themselves.

Have you considered retailing your product?

I have been manufacturing and marketing my invention on line for three years and find it both challenging and rewarding.

Fred
 
His product is not really patentable, just one that he is making for sale. It is a common blacksmith/bladesmith shop item.

Charlie - I would suggest you test the market before giving them to an online seller to sell on consignment. He will be making the money and you will be expending all the cost and risk. If he is talking about buying them outright, go for it, if not, then you may own them for a long time...with no way to sell them yourself.
I would put a few on "The Exchange" and see how they sell and get some feedback before venturing into the XXXXX manufacturing business.
 
Stacy: It was an outright order and purchase, not a consignment. He saw mine at a hammer-in, I brought it to get advice from experts on it, and he liked it so much that he talked me into building some for him.
Fred: When he talked me into making some, he plainly stated that others will likely copy it and reproduce them.
 
If you are selling them, I don't see any reason to do more than deliver the units and cash the check.
All the responsibility is his from that point on.
 
I hope it is the etcher I have been waiting for :)
 
As a lifelong retailer I will answer from that point of view.

As a retailer I like first class, well made products like yours. I like to buy from the maker too. Obviously you and Tracy have worked pricing, but I will say this. I usually won't consider a product unless my discount is 50% of expected retail. This allows room for "sales". I would rather the maker be wholesale only. Meaning he is not competing with me on a retail basis. If he is a retailer too, I will still do it if the pricing is attractive.

Pricing is usually cost plus freight. I expect to pay freight. Hopefully at a rate of 10% or less of the product cost. At 32# a unit an order of ten is 320# plus packaging. I'd have to look carefully at the cost of shipping to see the landed price. You being in flyover country makes you central to most retailers. Meaning the cost is the same east or west coast. As opposed to a west coast seller sending to Florida.

We love exclusives, but that rarely makes sense for the mfg. The Niagara/Crucible is one of those cases in which it does make sense.

Great looking unit, congrats on a fine product.

Just some thoughts from the customer side.
 
Sure, Zaph...post a link and a photo of the item.
Most of the guys are interested in seeing what it is.

Folks - If you like it, go to the sellers site for ordering info. This is a place to talk about the item, not to buy one.
 
Here's the link to my Atlas Mini forge now for sale at USA Knifemaker Supply. It's exciting for me because I didn't take my forge there to try to sell it, I took it there to get advice on it because I had very little experience with forges. One of Tracy's forges didn't show up for the hammer-in and I offered the use of mine for the weekend. It was used all day Saturday and several people wanted to know if it was for sale. Tracy and a couple others were VERY interested in it and talked me into making some for them. No one was more excited than my sons, Graham and Atlas. Graham gets his name on the beef jerky I make for Christmas, so Atlas gets his name on the forge.

For now, I have one of the early prototypes in the exchange, but don't really plan to sell these retail since you can get them from at least one retailer with interest from at least one more retailer.

http://www.usaknifemaker.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=172_173&products_id=4101
right-qrtr-shot.jpg
 
Thats one sweet little forge, I think I will copy it:p

Seriously though, if I wasn't in the middle of building a forge right now and did some traveling, I would have ordered one of those. I could seeing it being very handy for any mobile smith.
 
Very neat and tidy. The only thing I see missing is a spot for a thermocouple.
How long is the chamber/useable area? About 10" or so of relatively even heat? (nm, went to the site)
I really like how it's got the stand that could easily be attached to a board or just set on a work bench, with a handle for easy moving. As someone working with a multi-brick setup on the floor right now those are both very appealing. I'm not a forger, so for me the main reasons to upgrade are efficiency and easy addition of temp control. Even if there's no provision already in place for a thermocouple the square sides make it easy enough to mount one after the fact.

Very nice, very nice indeed.

eta: nice price too, with an included burner. I wish you'd had this out there a year and a half ago when I was trying to get my forge setup. :) I wound up spending about that putting my own together with far less style and functionality.
 
Very nice, and I wish you continued success!

If you ever receive a large order, especially if you have an exclusive deal, you should require cost of materials up front. I once sold quite a few fixtures I designed for my own use to another shop. The customer was good friends of my friends, and he was reputedly a good guy. The transaction went smoothly. He placed a repeat order and I foolishly didn't require $$$ up front. He cancelled his order and I was out both time and materials. I eventually sold the product 6 months later, but with great effort and a reduced price.
 
That is one "sexy" product. It is just one of those things you look at and truly go, "right on!" Everything just looks so right and perfect: design, construction, execution, size, scale, looks, cost, heck even the name is perfect. Now if you can get it in a large flat rate priority mail box...that would be perfect too. I might just have to buy one someday because...heck, because it's PERFECT!

Does it come with, or need, a regulator to run off a 5gal-20lb propane tank? Can it hook up to and run off a small hand held size propane or mapp gas bottle too?

As for the thermal couple placement question, why not just insert it through the back opening?

Well DONE father of Atlas!
 
Thanks, guys. It's a square tank, just drill a hole in the side for a thermocouple and stick it in? It comes with an MT245 torch head that puts out a lot of heat. It can connect straight to a 2lb propane or MAPP bottle. It also comes with a 48" hose that connects the burner to a 20lb propane tank. It doesn't have or need a regulator for this, but it is designed with a 1.063" intake so a bigger commercial burner can be used.

A couple tweaks and the next design will hopefully fit in a large flat rate box.
 
Zaph1, let me make a suggestion for tweaks after viewing the forge.. if you haven't thought about it already..

lose the handle, and where the base comes into the bottom of forge make a channel bracket that can simply be bolted together by customer, this will also allow the base to sit on top of the forge for packaging..

great dealio man, now I'm off to copying it.. can you give me some 360 shots.?? :D J/K
 
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That is very cool. Congrats on working with Tracy for getting your product out there!

This looks like a very viable option for people with space constraints, or without permanent areas they can work in. If I ever get into forging this is something I would consider..
 
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