Butcher steel for large knives and hatchets

[Loosearrow]

Had the day off today and was playing with the sandpaper on the large knives. The butcher steel I have was hanging on the workbench and I thought, why waste my time trying to get a super keen edge on all this stuff. My Western 49 bowie took a keen sharp toothy edge quickly. Then to the short Ontario machete, same results. Out came the kukri which seems harder to sharpen and the steel did a fine job. Then on to a Plumb and Norland hatchet. Seemed to work well. Unless I am going to skin a mouse, I thought, why waste all the time putting a super, slice the paper into a thousand pieces edge? Anyone out there try a good butcher steel on their large knives etc? It will depend on the quality and hardness of your steel and the make up of the knife of course, but it may be worth the effort to carry one in the bush to put the edge on quickly. I"m sure someone will say to use a file. I know that people use the steel to realign the edge, but mine seems to put a nice edge on most things. Regards Loosearrow

 

[pitdog]

Why large knives and not just any knives ?

I always give them a few swipes on a steel before resorting to any other methods. It is usually all they need to bring them back to sharp again.

 

[mneedham]

Butcher steel should work fine!

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

Post expired.

 

[Jason B.]

Me and steels are not friends and never will be for good reason. Sure they work but once you find out how they do it and if you care about the quality of the edge you are applying you will never use it again.

 

[Horn Dog]

Steels work fine for me, too. I keep a large one in my lawn tractor toolbox to touch up the machetes.

 

[DWK2]

knifenut1013,

Are you talking about a smooth burnishing steel or an abrasive steel that grinds the edge (or both)? I'd be interested to hear about the bad experience you've had with steels.

Thanks,

DancesWithKnives

 

[Jason B.]

knifenut1013,

Are you talking about a smooth burnishing steel or an abrasive steel that grinds the edge (or both)? I'd be interested to hear about the bad experience you've had with steels.

Thanks,

DancesWithKnives

When you cut something you deform the edge of the knife (the reason they go dull) and when you deform it the steel becomes weak from the stress that was applied. When you burnish with a smooth steel you are causing plastic deformation of the steel (more stressing of the metal) making it weaker than before. With a abrasive steel you are not doing much different it just does it a little faster. In the end you have a edge that is folded over it self, compressed and weak, your knife will go dull faster because of this.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...l&hs=gcN&q=verhoeven+sharpening&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Burnishing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnishing_(metal)

 

[theonew]

When you cut something you deform the edge of the knife (the reason they go dull) and when you deform it the steel becomes weak from the stress that was applied. When you burnish with a smooth steel you are causing plastic deformation of the steel (more stressing of the metal) making it weaker than before. With a abrasive steel you are not doing much different it just does it a little faster. In the end you have a edge that is folded over it self, compressed and weak, your knife will go dull faster because of this.

Pretty sure this is exactly what happened to me. I fixed a rolled edge by using an edge trailing stroke forcefully on a ceramic rod. Later when I really needed that knife to work the edge folded like copper just from an awkward removal from its kydex sheath :grumpy: Yep, I don't trust steel that has been deformed and than "fixed" anymore. Grind it away and start fresh.

 

[DWK2]

Thanks! I'll read those reference sources. I'm going spearfishing for a week in the morning so I may not be able to respond for quite awhile. However, with as many knives as I use, it will be worthwhile!

DancesWithKnives

 

[Chris_Norden]

When you cut something you deform the edge of the knife (the reason they go dull) and when you deform it the steel becomes weak from the stress that was applied. When you burnish with a smooth steel you are causing plastic deformation of the steel (more stressing of the metal) making it weaker than before. With a abrasive steel you are not doing much different it just does it a little faster. In the end you have a edge that is folded over it self, compressed and weak, your knife will go dull faster because of this.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...l&hs=gcN&q=verhoeven+sharpening&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Burnishing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnishing_(metal)

My thoughts too. Like bending wire to snap it. I think it has its place if meat and veg are all you're cutting, but not much else.

 

[Jason B.]

It only has its place because its been around for so long if we had the knowledge then that we do now they probably would have not become so popular. Even for cheap kitchen knives I'd rather use a diamond steel, 8000 grit waterstone, 2000 grit sandpaper, uf ceramic etc.......

IMHO yes, it has its place.....right next to a Carbide scraper.

 

[wildmike]

Knifenut your point seems to be moot. While the use of a steel may weaken the edge to some point. It is usualy only used to maintain the edge during working hours after which the knife should be sharpened. They never were intended to be the only method of sharpening used. Some users have resorted to this practice whether out of ignorance or laziness who knows.

When using my kukri for extended periods I would touch up the edge frequently with the chakma (a burnisher) or with a steel. Later when I had the time I would sharpen the edge with either a loaded strop or with stones and a strop.

 

[Jason B.]

I guess its a moot point to some but at the same time why not just use some 2000 grit sandpaper? With the steel you must keep using it often because the edge keeps getting dull right? Now when you get home and touch it up with the strop your only sharpening weakened metal, the next time you use that blade it will show poor edge retention because of this. We typically buy knives with good steel and HT's so we don't need to sharpen them often, with steeling your turning good steel into mashed,soft, and deformed steel. When this is done to a edge you are no longer getting the true performance of the steel but the performance of the damaged edge.

Not saying that it does not work just trying to explain why its not good.

If you knew your sharpening method was degrading the performance of your cutting tool would you keep doing it or try to find a better way?

 

[Toucan Oasis]

If you knew your sharpening method was degrading the performance of your cutting tool would you keep doing it or try to find a better way?

Hmmmmmmmmm. If you replace Sharpening with Voting and Cutting tool with Life......life instead of knife...... it makes that question very interesting.

From what I've seen in my years I say the answer is a resounding YES, Keep doing it !

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

IIRC burnishing steels work well on carbon steel knives, as it work-hardens the edge region. It's similar in principal to peening the edge of a scythe. You don't notice this effect on stanless, however.

 

[sodak]

When you cut something you deform the edge of the knife (the reason they go dull) and when you deform it the steel becomes weak from the stress that was applied. When you burnish with a smooth steel you are causing plastic deformation of the steel (more stressing of the metal) making it weaker than before. With a abrasive steel you are not doing much different it just does it a little faster. In the end you have a edge that is folded over it self, compressed and weak, your knife will go dull faster because of this.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...l&hs=gcN&q=verhoeven+sharpening&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Burnishing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnishing_(metal)

I've pretty much switched over to ceramic rods for this very reason, and had to learn to develop a VERY LIGHT touch so that I would actually abrade the edge, not roll it. Even so, it generally works better on knives that are below 62 HRC or so, at least from my experience. Anything harder, and I go to a ceramic stone.

Burnishing works, and if you are trying to "extend" the edge to finish cutting soft things such as meat, it's very fast. But at the end of the day, I will re-sharpen.

 

[Sparljo]

Smooth Steels are great.

Usage of a steel does degrade the edge.... but then again so does cutting things.

Visit a butcher shop or a slaughter house to see them in action.

Perfect edges and working edges are two completely different things.

A steel is great for a quick working edge.

 

[theonew]

I think that if your woods knife is rolling enough that a steel is beneficial then you ought to look at thickening up your bevel a bit, or getting a knife in a different blade steel. For edge degradation via abrasion, a 2 ounce DMT Diafold sharpens things up very quickly.