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butterfly knife laws for illinois
- Thread starter mitchman
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2005
- Messages
- 42
First off, I'm not a lawyer, and so don't hold this as actual legal advice, but that being said, they *appear* to be *kinda* legal. 
I say this for the following reasons.
A.) G.A.T. Guns over in Kane county sells them and they're way too big a store for cops to let them sell illegal merchandise. G.A.T. Guns site: http://www.gatguns.com/ although I think they only sell CCC (cheap chinese . . . ummm cuties) these days.:thumbdn:
B.) A personal friend ordered two via fedex/ups without problem.
C.) I've ordered a total of 4 without problem.
D.) The text of Illinois statute 720 ILCS 5/24‑1 concerning "Unlawful Use of Weapons" states the following:
(720 ILCS 5/24‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24‑1)
(Text of Section from P.A. 94‑72)
Sec. 24‑1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
(1) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or
carries any bludgeon, black‑jack, slung‑shot, sand‑club, sand‑bag, metal knuckles, throwing star, or any knife, commonly referred to as a switchblade knife, which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife, or a ballistic knife, which is a device that propels a knifelike blade as a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material or compressed gas
The interesting thing is that I can't seem to find gravity knives in here or anything about opening via inertia. It goes on to also say that anyone with any kind of knife (or object for that matter) who intends to harm someone with it is also commiting a crime, however most would say that would be somewhat obvious.
E.) The text of Illinois statute (720 ILCS 5/Art. 33A heading) concerning "Armed Violence" states in the following that one commits assault with a deadly weapon, when one commits assault with:
(2) A Category I weapon is a handgun, sawed‑off shotgun, sawed‑off rifle, any other firearm small enough to be concealed upon the person, semiautomatic firearm, or machine gun. A Category II weapon is any other rifle, shotgun, spring gun, other firearm, stun gun or taser as defined in paragraph (a) of Section 24‑1 of this Code, knife with a blade of at least 3 inches in length, dagger, dirk, switchblade knife, stiletto, axe, hatchet, or other deadly or dangerous weapon or instrument of like character. As used in this subsection (b) "semiautomatic firearm" means a repeating firearm that utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round and that requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.
Granted, there are more things on there, but since none of the other sections deal with knives, I just posted the relevant one. This section is only in reference to carrying, not possessing (which you do when your knife is in your home), and apparently only if you're committing a crime. What it says in summary is that if you're committing a crime and have a knife on you, that is assault with a deadly weapon. What it doesn't say is that knives of 3" or greater are illegal to possess, which is important in this case because probably 97% of production balisongs/butterflys have blades that are around 4". Randomly enough I just posted a question about that over in that bali section two days ago.
What I'm always curious about (and maybe someone else can clarify) is that if you're not committing a crime, is it legal to carry a knife with a blade in excess of 3"? I always hear about people having sheaths on their belts with butterflys in them (so they're not concealed I suppose) but I doubt they're from Illinois, so I wouldn't try it.
The case against butterfly knives/balisongs being legal in Illinois:
A.) I know on the federal level there's legislation against gravity knives or knives that open and lock via inertia. Theorhetically if you can find a butterfly knife without a latch on it, or one that just doesn't latch open (the Spyderco Spyderfly and Spyderco Szabofly for instance) the legislation usually doesn't hold against it, because it doesn't lock open. I'd like to say a few choice words about what I've been hearing NYC cops have been saying are "gravity knives" but that would be digressing from the question at hand.
B.) Municipal codes vary from city to city and while they might not be illegal per se in Illinois, there's a fair chance they're illegal in the town you live in. I'd recommend looking up your city municipal code online as many of them are.
C.) It may even vary county to county. For example, Cook County. If you're not from Illinois, you might not know this, but that's where Chicago is and Chicago makes up the bulk majority of the county. So if Chicago wants to make something illegal in the county, it pretty much is. I've seen butterfly knives for sale in Kane & McDonough Counties, but never in Cook. Coincidence? Doubt it.
D.) They might be legal as homemade apple pie in both Illinois and in your city of residence and you somehow found a balisong with a blade of 2.9 inches, but the arresting officer probably won't know that, much less care.
However, most likely, you won't actually be arrested if a cop sees you with a balisong (city of Chicago excluded.) He's a lot more likely to confiscate it and give you a warning, that is unless you're committing a crime with it, but in that case, it's pretty obvious you'd be arrested. Either way, don't plan on trying to talk your way out of it, because trying to legally dance your way out of something with some patrolman just isn't gunna cut it. I'd recomend if the knife's worth less than $50, let him take it. In fact, while it'd be unethical to suggest this, I'd say if a cop stops you and trys to confiscate just about any knife less than $100-$200, let him take it. Because if you're a broke college student like me, the cost of a lawyer just ain't worth it, and to quote the old saying, "those who act as their own attorny have a fool for a client."
You'd think I wouldn't have to say this next part but there are those out there who might read this later and not quite have grasped this concept from the all the previous sections. So here goes.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, YAWEH, BUDDAH, ALLAH OR WHATEVER DIETY YOU MAY OR MAY NOT CHOOSE TO WORSHIP, DO NOT PLAY WITH THEM IN PUBLIC.
It's a fast way to get shot. If you can't see why, you're gunna have to just trust me on this one. You and I might both know that you're just flipping it around, but to a cop, you're brandishing an all-to-deadly weapon at anyone within eyesight. So if you choose to carry, just use it like any other pocket knife for any pocket knife purpose, and don't flip it.
If you need to flip something, they actually make butterfly combs (available @ http://www.buckbean.com/items/item199.htm for $4.99) that open and close like real balisongs, although they are much lighter. There's also the "Bottlefly" ( available @ http://www.newgraham.com/bottlefly.htm for $19.99) which while it is somewhat heavier than a butterfly knife, it does open and close the same way and you can do most of the same tricks with it. If you feel the need to play with something in public, go with the comb or the bottlefly, because neither should get you arrested/shot/fired. Notice I didn't say expelled, because at this moment I'd like to take a moment to say a few choice words about "Zero Tolerance" policies in schools, but that would again be digressing. To be honest with you, I own both the comb and the bottle opener and usually play with them at work, because they won't get me fired.
I hope this was helpful, and I'm hoping it was because that was the size of a small book right there
. I encourage you to do further research on Illinois law so here's a the link for compiled Illinois state statues: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs.asp
Good luck and happy flipping.
I say this for the following reasons.A.) G.A.T. Guns over in Kane county sells them and they're way too big a store for cops to let them sell illegal merchandise. G.A.T. Guns site: http://www.gatguns.com/ although I think they only sell CCC (cheap chinese . . . ummm cuties) these days.:thumbdn:
B.) A personal friend ordered two via fedex/ups without problem.
C.) I've ordered a total of 4 without problem.
D.) The text of Illinois statute 720 ILCS 5/24‑1 concerning "Unlawful Use of Weapons" states the following:
(720 ILCS 5/24‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24‑1)
(Text of Section from P.A. 94‑72)
Sec. 24‑1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
(1) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or
carries any bludgeon, black‑jack, slung‑shot, sand‑club, sand‑bag, metal knuckles, throwing star, or any knife, commonly referred to as a switchblade knife, which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife, or a ballistic knife, which is a device that propels a knifelike blade as a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material or compressed gas
The interesting thing is that I can't seem to find gravity knives in here or anything about opening via inertia. It goes on to also say that anyone with any kind of knife (or object for that matter) who intends to harm someone with it is also commiting a crime, however most would say that would be somewhat obvious.
E.) The text of Illinois statute (720 ILCS 5/Art. 33A heading) concerning "Armed Violence" states in the following that one commits assault with a deadly weapon, when one commits assault with:
(2) A Category I weapon is a handgun, sawed‑off shotgun, sawed‑off rifle, any other firearm small enough to be concealed upon the person, semiautomatic firearm, or machine gun. A Category II weapon is any other rifle, shotgun, spring gun, other firearm, stun gun or taser as defined in paragraph (a) of Section 24‑1 of this Code, knife with a blade of at least 3 inches in length, dagger, dirk, switchblade knife, stiletto, axe, hatchet, or other deadly or dangerous weapon or instrument of like character. As used in this subsection (b) "semiautomatic firearm" means a repeating firearm that utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round and that requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.
Granted, there are more things on there, but since none of the other sections deal with knives, I just posted the relevant one. This section is only in reference to carrying, not possessing (which you do when your knife is in your home), and apparently only if you're committing a crime. What it says in summary is that if you're committing a crime and have a knife on you, that is assault with a deadly weapon. What it doesn't say is that knives of 3" or greater are illegal to possess, which is important in this case because probably 97% of production balisongs/butterflys have blades that are around 4". Randomly enough I just posted a question about that over in that bali section two days ago.
What I'm always curious about (and maybe someone else can clarify) is that if you're not committing a crime, is it legal to carry a knife with a blade in excess of 3"? I always hear about people having sheaths on their belts with butterflys in them (so they're not concealed I suppose) but I doubt they're from Illinois, so I wouldn't try it.
The case against butterfly knives/balisongs being legal in Illinois:
A.) I know on the federal level there's legislation against gravity knives or knives that open and lock via inertia. Theorhetically if you can find a butterfly knife without a latch on it, or one that just doesn't latch open (the Spyderco Spyderfly and Spyderco Szabofly for instance) the legislation usually doesn't hold against it, because it doesn't lock open. I'd like to say a few choice words about what I've been hearing NYC cops have been saying are "gravity knives" but that would be digressing from the question at hand.
B.) Municipal codes vary from city to city and while they might not be illegal per se in Illinois, there's a fair chance they're illegal in the town you live in. I'd recommend looking up your city municipal code online as many of them are.
C.) It may even vary county to county. For example, Cook County. If you're not from Illinois, you might not know this, but that's where Chicago is and Chicago makes up the bulk majority of the county. So if Chicago wants to make something illegal in the county, it pretty much is. I've seen butterfly knives for sale in Kane & McDonough Counties, but never in Cook. Coincidence? Doubt it.
D.) They might be legal as homemade apple pie in both Illinois and in your city of residence and you somehow found a balisong with a blade of 2.9 inches, but the arresting officer probably won't know that, much less care.
However, most likely, you won't actually be arrested if a cop sees you with a balisong (city of Chicago excluded.) He's a lot more likely to confiscate it and give you a warning, that is unless you're committing a crime with it, but in that case, it's pretty obvious you'd be arrested. Either way, don't plan on trying to talk your way out of it, because trying to legally dance your way out of something with some patrolman just isn't gunna cut it. I'd recomend if the knife's worth less than $50, let him take it. In fact, while it'd be unethical to suggest this, I'd say if a cop stops you and trys to confiscate just about any knife less than $100-$200, let him take it. Because if you're a broke college student like me, the cost of a lawyer just ain't worth it, and to quote the old saying, "those who act as their own attorny have a fool for a client."
You'd think I wouldn't have to say this next part but there are those out there who might read this later and not quite have grasped this concept from the all the previous sections. So here goes.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, YAWEH, BUDDAH, ALLAH OR WHATEVER DIETY YOU MAY OR MAY NOT CHOOSE TO WORSHIP, DO NOT PLAY WITH THEM IN PUBLIC.
It's a fast way to get shot. If you can't see why, you're gunna have to just trust me on this one. You and I might both know that you're just flipping it around, but to a cop, you're brandishing an all-to-deadly weapon at anyone within eyesight. So if you choose to carry, just use it like any other pocket knife for any pocket knife purpose, and don't flip it.
If you need to flip something, they actually make butterfly combs (available @ http://www.buckbean.com/items/item199.htm for $4.99) that open and close like real balisongs, although they are much lighter. There's also the "Bottlefly" ( available @ http://www.newgraham.com/bottlefly.htm for $19.99) which while it is somewhat heavier than a butterfly knife, it does open and close the same way and you can do most of the same tricks with it. If you feel the need to play with something in public, go with the comb or the bottlefly, because neither should get you arrested/shot/fired. Notice I didn't say expelled, because at this moment I'd like to take a moment to say a few choice words about "Zero Tolerance" policies in schools, but that would again be digressing. To be honest with you, I own both the comb and the bottle opener and usually play with them at work, because they won't get me fired.
I hope this was helpful, and I'm hoping it was because that was the size of a small book right there
. I encourage you to do further research on Illinois law so here's a the link for compiled Illinois state statues: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs.aspGood luck and happy flipping.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2012
- Messages
- 251
is this still the same case?
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2012
- Messages
- 339
Illinois Law is "fuzzy" about knives (and carry) because that's the way the lawyers (on both sides) like it. Don't ever call your knife or pocket knife a "weapon" if questioned by Law Enforcement about what you're carrying on your person. Tell them you've got a knife or pocket knife - but no weapons on your person. A knife is only considered a weapon when it's used as a weapon. Calling your own knife a weapon opens up all kinds of grief for you because you've stated that it's a weapon and not a "tool". Confiscating a knife without giving you a receipt is shady - there could never be a legitimate (lawful) reason to take your property without appropriate documentation.
A small SAK is a deadly weapon when it's used to inflict bodily harm or is used in the commission of a felony ... otherwise its just a very small knife with a toothpick and tweezers. The 3" rule seems to be about adding charges (of carrying a conceled Class II weapon) if a person has a knife on them while they're allegedly comitting a felony.
If you're carrying a knife (regardless of the blade length) as a "weapon" then you're on the hairy edge of the law (even if you don't plan on comitting a felony). If you live in Chicago or Chicagoland then you're going to get jerked around ... the price you'll pay for living in the land of Soccer Moms (who are afraid of everything) and Corrupt/Controlling Chicago which doesn't seem to be afraid of anything. An interesting specific legal question about blade length presents itself when Chicago limits blade length to 2.5" but the State specifies 3" as the magic number. State Laws may not supercede Federal Law - I'm not convinced that Municipal Law can supercede State Law. Chicago's 2.5" rule and the State's 3" rule may be an apples to oranges comparison. When I have the time I'll investigate further - One may be a felony while the other is lesser crime (a misdemeanor like breaking curfew).
A small SAK is a deadly weapon when it's used to inflict bodily harm or is used in the commission of a felony ... otherwise its just a very small knife with a toothpick and tweezers. The 3" rule seems to be about adding charges (of carrying a conceled Class II weapon) if a person has a knife on them while they're allegedly comitting a felony.
If you're carrying a knife (regardless of the blade length) as a "weapon" then you're on the hairy edge of the law (even if you don't plan on comitting a felony). If you live in Chicago or Chicagoland then you're going to get jerked around ... the price you'll pay for living in the land of Soccer Moms (who are afraid of everything) and Corrupt/Controlling Chicago which doesn't seem to be afraid of anything. An interesting specific legal question about blade length presents itself when Chicago limits blade length to 2.5" but the State specifies 3" as the magic number. State Laws may not supercede Federal Law - I'm not convinced that Municipal Law can supercede State Law. Chicago's 2.5" rule and the State's 3" rule may be an apples to oranges comparison. When I have the time I'll investigate further - One may be a felony while the other is lesser crime (a misdemeanor like breaking curfew).
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2012
- Messages
- 339
Did you mean 6" or 0.6"? If its greater than 2.5" in Chicago it can be confiscated - and you may also be fined - but it won't be a felony. If you characterize it as a weapon (if questioned) or you hurt someone with it ... on purpose then you're in deep sheep dip. If the blade is less than 3" and you've got it on you when you commit a felony it can't be used to add another State charge. If you use that knife to commit the felony, regardless of blade length it is now a deadly weapon.