Butterfly Knives in FL

BaliLover

BaliLover

Joined
Oct 25, 2000
Messages
1,350
I need to find out what the legalities are for carrying a butterfly knife in the state of Florida. I was recently arrested and the main charge is carrying a concealed weapon for having a PC-68 in my pocket. The PC 68 is has a 3" blade with a single edge and the knife itself has a latch.

The arresting officer told me that it was not considered a "common pocket knife" and that florida only allows for the carry of a "common pocket knife"

I need help finding any prior cases or possibly state statues, etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
The LEO is right -- a butterfly knife isn't a "common pocketknife." It seems that this standard is re-evaluated every time a knife is involved in a crime, specifically when it is only carried. Through case law a common pocketknife is a knife that has a folding blade of less than 4 inches and does not have a pronounced device for protecting the user's hands during a stab (e.g., a guard).

Chapter 790 of the Florida Statutes has all the details on how to carry weapons. In short, anything but a stun gun that fires a projectile or a firearm is okay to carry openly. Anything other than a common pocketknife (save for chemical sprays or a stun gun that does not fire a projectile) that is carried concealed (e.g., in your pocket) requires a concealed weapons license.

HTH & IANAL,

- D. Rifle
 
By your own description however, a butterfly knife is a common pocketknife. Its got a less than 4" blade and nothing pronounced to protect protect the users hands.
 
I hate laws like this. Far too vague. Laws need to be very specific. They are too hard to enforce or open to misinterpretation when they are worded that way. What is "common" to one person may not be to another.
 
Originally posted by BaliLover
By your own description however, a butterfly knife is a common pocketknife. Its got a less than 4" blade and nothing pronounced to protect protect the users hands.
Click to expand...

I should have clarified: a manual folding knife where the blade opens from a fixed handle. However, that's not really important -- it's unlikely that a judge or jury would decide that a butterfly knife is a common pocketknife.

Not to be a total jerk, but if you choose to fight it and win, that becomes part of Florida's case law, too; the ultimate result being that 3-inched butterfly knives are also "common pocketknives."

Around here (Miami-Dade) it is unusual for folks to be arrested solely for carrying concealed weapons. They're usually cought doing other (*cough*) silly things, and the CCW charge gets tacked on if you're being a ****.

Respectfully,

- D. Rifle
 
A butterfly knife is a manual folding knife where the blade opens from 2 fixed handles.

Yes there was another charge, but the Concealed weapon charge is what I was arrested for first, the other charge came later once I was already arrested.
 
Auto opening knives are also legal for carry because there is no law banning them in Florida. If it's a side opener and the blade is under 4" then it is still considered a pocket knife and doesn't require a CCW permit to carry (to my knowledge).
 
Originally posted by BaliLover
A butterfly knife is a manual folding knife where the blade opens from 2 fixed handles.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you're getting at, but IMHO it's plainly obvious that a butterfly knife does not meet the case law-definition of a common pocketknife ("2 fixed handles" [that are essentially *not* fixed at all relative to the blade with respect to motion]).

If you don't mind me asking, what was it that caused the LEO to make contact with you in the first place?

- D. Rifle
 
The person driving my car was supposedly speeding, although even with the deputy right behind us my radar detector didn't pick him up (the first time EVER that it's failed to pick up radar directly behind me.) Personally, the car fits a profile. Its a customized foreign car and we were leaving a nightclub.

He pulled us over and asked for my friend's license (he was driving) and my registration. I told him there was a handgun locked in the glovebox and that I prefered if he opened the box instead of me just to be safe. I was the removed from the vehicle and searched, which I was informed they had the right to do just because there was a handgun legally being carried in the car.

There was no problem with the handgun.
 
Originally posted by darth_rifle
I don't know what you're getting at, but IMHO it's plainly obvious that a butterfly knife does not meet the case law-definition of a common pocketknife ("2 fixed handles" [that are essentially *not* fixed at all relative to the blade with respect to motion]).
Click to expand...

They are fixed at a pivot point like any other knife handle would be, there just happen to be 2 of them. It also has an external latch which is another device that adds a step into the process of opening it which is an added safety feature missing in most pocket knives.

You seem to have a bit of a grudge against such a knife for some reason, although you are one of the few. I don't have to convince you or a judge though, I have to convice a jury of my peers, and from what I've seen in this area, that won't be the most difficult thing to do. It just takes one person right?
 
Originally posted by BaliLover
The person driving my car was supposedly speeding, although even with the deputy right behind us my radar detector didn't pick him up (the first time EVER that it's failed to pick up radar directly behind me.) Personally, the car fits a profile. Its a customized foreign car and we were leaving a nightclub.
Click to expand...

Perhaps he was just pacing you. ;)

- D. Rifle
 
Originally posted by BaliLover
They are fixed at a pivot point like any other knife handle would be, there just happen to be 2 of them. It also has an external latch which is another device that adds a step into the process of opening it which is an added safety feature missing in most pocket knives.
Click to expand...

The latch and associated additional step to open the knife, as well as the consideration of a safety feature, are not relevant. But, we're both beating our own dead horses now. :)


You seem to have a bit of a grudge against such a knife for some reason, although you are one of the few. I don't have to convince you or a judge though, I have to convice a jury of my peers, and from what I've seen in this area, that won't be the most difficult thing to do. It just takes one person right?
Click to expand...

No grudge at all! I love all types of knives: legal and illegal... They're all great (well, except maybe those crappy ballistic knives). :) It's just that balis are not common pocketknives! But hey... I'm sure you're all set and your attorney will advise you. I'd be somewhat surprised if your court-related obligations even go far enough for a jury to get involved.

Whatever the outcome, I sincerely hope you will keep us posted as cases concerning particular features of a knife are rare. Check out Bunkley v. Florida -- at issue was Bunkley's 2.5-3 inch pocketknife that cost him a life sentence instead of +or- 5 years. (It was overturned, however).

Best of luck,

- D. Rifle
 
Bali, IIRC you had some problems with the local LEOs before this, i.e. your car attracted attention and you were pulled over more than once.

My advice is that unless you have a law degree, you should let your attorney research this and do his job. He can find all the pertinent case law very easily.
 
I think your best hope is to argue that butterfly knives are not any more dangerous than any other knife, and that if balisongs are uncommon it is due to purely cosmetic features. Right to keep and bear arms defenses to weapons charges virtually never work, but if your case really looks weak you might try to argue that because knives are common tools, knife laws should be subject to strict scrutiny even if gun laws are not. Identifying your knife as a weapon when you're on trial for possession is generally bad, though. If you can get jury members to believe that you use the knife for peeling oranges, cutting packages, even prying things, you have a chance. It's not enough just to argue that your knife is a tool. The jury has to believe it.

It's pretty obvious that a 3" balisong is not more dangerous than a 3.75" benchmade axis, if only you could get a jury to get over their fear of swinging blades.

You can use L.B. v State to argue that a 4" length limit should apply to butterfly knives as well, but keep in mind that L.B. was a juvenile case involving an ordinary 3.75" folding knife on school property. So be careful not to draw non-existent parallels between your case and L.B.

Have you contacted the AKTI? They aren't too concerned about anything except ordinary folders so they may not give you the time of day, but it might be worth a shot.

IANAL. TINLA.

Good luck.
 
why did you even mention the gun in the glove compartment? I mean if he asked you should tell him, but I've been stopped a number of times and they never ask if I have a gun in my car or not. Their ignorance is your bliss.
And I think the leo was blowing smoke up your a**, I don't think having a legal gun in your glove compartment is probable cause for a body search. Get a lawer and fight it.
 
No body, and I mean no body obtains a concealed weapons permit in this state to carry anything other than a firearm... No reasonable person in the leagal system on either side of the bench will try to portrey you as a guy "who broke the law" by carrieing ANY three inch single edged knife SOLEY because you did not have a carry permit... This is mental masterbation if I ever heard it. :barf:

Look, think about the term "common pocketknife"... That will give you a hint! Talk about stupidity. This law is made to be beaten...

... This charge can, and will be thrown out in no time flat. If you need more information on beating this charge, please email me privately at vertias.group@att.net and I will give you the means to do this yourself if you like ;)
 
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