Buy a new stone or a new strop?

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Pink Guy

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Dec 11, 2013
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Recently, I bought a sharpening set. The Bob Kramer sharpening set by Zwilling (link here https://kramerknives.com/product/6-piece-sharpening-kit-by-zwilling/). It has a 400 grit, 1000 grit, and 5000 grit stone. I was trying to get to an edge that can whittle free hanging hair, but I wasn't able to, probably because my skill is lacking. I was still able to get sharp enough to slice paper easily. Should I get the 10000 grit stone or should I just get a strop? I'm not sure which would be the best for me to achieve an edge that will whittle free hanging hair. Or should I get a 3000 grit stone as the 1000 grit to 5000 grit jump may be too high? I don't really know. Thanks
 
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The 10k grit stone would run me roughly $150 while the strop would run me less than $30. If I achieve the same results with just the strop instead of the stone I will just get the strop. Just need help deciding on what to do.
 
Yeah, it sorta came down to $$ for me as well....plus I don't feel like getting set up with strops, paste(s) etc right now.
I can't answer that question, but I'm sure someone else here will chime in soon....
 
What steel ?
Let me shout that : WHAAAAA STEEL ! ?
This makes ALL the difference. First off there are people here who get a hair whittling edge off their 400 or 1000 stone. I can pretty much do it with my Edge Pro but that's cheating, right ?.
That said if you, or I, are sharpening some soft funny stainless, Bob help us ! The strop is almost a must to get the final garbage bur off the edge.

If we are sharpening the good stuff then . . . by golly gosh Batman . . . 5,000 is plenty ! ! !
I mostly use Shapton Glass stones (which run a bit finer when looking at the grit numbers ((4,000 Glass is sort of like most other 6,000 stones)).
The edge off my Shapton Glass (again cheating by using the Edge Pro Apex) by the time I get to the 4,000 is staggeringly sharp and easily whittles hair with zero stropping. This is with M390, CTS-XHP, M4, HAP-40 . . . the good stuff. All bets are off with my SAKs and Case blades. I carry and use the heck out of these as well but I have to fart around more to get the bur off. Often resorting to stopping it / or steep beveling the edge on a Norton 8,000 stone or a Shapton Pro 5,000 stone hand held. Once the apex is refined in this way how ever it is as sharp as I could ever want it. Which is spine tingling hair whittling.

Oh sure with stropping and a progressing of finer and finer grits the curls off the single hair get thinner and thinner and the cut depth control goes up. If one wants to have fun playing that game more power to you.

But no 5,000 done right (Edge Pro Apex) will produce an edge (on decent steel properly hardened) that will make you scared to actually use the knife.
 
Pink Guy said:
Should I get the 10000 grit stone
Click to expand...
PS: I use and enjoy higher grit stones : 8,000, 10,000 and 15,000. They are FOR SURE not a necessity to achieve your goal and used without great care and accuracy could actually round over and mess up your edge to where you have to start over and slightly repropfile the main edge grind.
 
J5000 is damn fine; it takes pretty good steel to make even that level worthwhile unless you just like the shine. My first hair-spitting edge came from Mother's Mag & Aluminum Polish however, so that's my recommendation for your goal. You can strop on all sorts of things too; you don't need to buy a strop. Try denim, paperboard (old cereal box), wood (a paint stick, or basswood block), masking tape, etc.

Electron microscopy of the edge that can be had with Mother's is shown on the Science of Sharp blog:
https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/2015/10/30/burr-removal-part-1/
https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/2016/05/29/the-pasted-strop-part-4/
 
I thought the point of buying a strop with compound would be more effective than using just plain cardboard, denim, etc. So I guess the consensus is that a 10k grit chosera waterstone is unnecessary then? I'm mostly sharpening carbon steel like 1095.
 
Pink Guy said:
So I guess the consensus is that a 10k grit chosera waterstone is unnecessary then? I'm mostly sharpening carbon steel like 1095.
Click to expand...

I won't speak for anyone else, but for me, yes. On high quality carbon steel e.g. Hitachi Super Blue I stop at a 5000 Naniwa Super Stone, even though I have 8000 and 12000 Super Stones as well.

Leather isn't necessarily the best substrate for compounds. If you want to use a strop bare, sure, get a quality horsehide razor strop. But if you are going to use a compound I think there are better options. Please read the second Science of Sharp page I linked above; he explains why clean denim produces very fine edges, and why you should start with fresh fabric once the strop is glazed rather than reloading it.
 
If the stones make any mud at all, you can reclaim the 5000 grit mud and smear a little on the edge of a cutting board and use immediately, or gently lift it off the stone with a sheet of copy paper.

Let the paper dry and use that for a disposable strop - it will be good for maybe half dozen reconditionings - wrap the paper around a dry stone for a strop base.

I would not bother with stones above 8k.
 
I saw a tip on Youtube about using Bore Bright (the one without any granules in it) on the finest Worksharp belt, to hone a knife edge.

I gave it a shot on a belt that I had nicked and it really seemed to work. The edge has no visible or detectable burr (I'm sure it's not perfect).

Did it work as well as a good razor strop or similar? Probably not. But I'm REALLY not trying to spend any more money on sharpening stuff right now.....
 
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