Buyer Beware

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winchester73

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Jan 6, 2008
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I posted this in another thread. Just wanted people reading forum to beware of unscrupulous sellers.

Well folks:
I see it has already started. I saw one of the USA parts assembled in China knives on that well known auction site. Advertized as new and it is in a sense, it is the PH1 Legends series Teddy Roosevelt Rough Rider 1898-1998 etched knife blade. It is advertized as having a black paakawood handle and blades stamped schrade+ usa LTD(the blades are stamped thus but this knife was not completed and sold out of Ellenville). Schrade USA never used paakawood. This dealer would have paid somewhere between 40.00 to 50.00 dollars. He has it listed for buy now at 149.99. Buyer beware.
 
G'day Winchester, seventy lookers so far and no reply....at the top it's states this Forums' aims are for collectors of USA Schrade to meet and share information..<or something similar> I couldnt agree more that as collectors we should be able to warn other collectors about undesirable practices we see particularly on that site....and maybe help them keep their hard earned for the 'Real Deal' USA Schrades...I agree we should not discuss the merits or otherwise of a single sale we see, particularly while that sale is in progress ,<even though you can freely discuss on Bernard Levines Forum during the auction and many including myself have stopped bidding when I have had Bernard or one of the "knowledgables" advise there is "something stinks in Sweden" about a particular knife....however when a seller is constantly misrepresenting what he is actually selling then it would be great if we had a 'sticky' that may warn others without mentioning the specific seller..just what he does....I believe that particular seller put the unscruple in your word unscrupulous...he adds a Schrade box, even certificates of authenticity 'last production runs' to embellish his fanciful descriptions...for Scrimshaw Sharpfingers with the pakkawood and all the Chinese goodies..knife blades with tang stampings that were long ago made as you rightly point out and not last production runs at all....Heritage Sharfingers and also his dodgy PH1's and PH2's now the Schrade fillet knives <orange handles and pakkawood varities> I believe I originally had the only complete SFO boxed Orange handle 147OT's in correct Schrade box's which I obtained from the Bankruptcy sale <box of 50> Codger and Upstream have the Real Deals....and now they are everywhere for under $20 recent rehandles like all the others on original Schrade blank stock....the main point is whilst 'Smokey' who had the work carried out states exactly what they did on their website....its these "unscrupulous" secondary sellers who are intent on making the quick buck with misrepresenting the knives as new and original and pre 2004....<I'm blocked by him from even making contact with him and he is well aware of his practices to deceive Newbie collectors....if it was a sale on the merits of a Schrade blade that has been adourned with Chinese 'goodies' and sheaths for EDU's =every day users I have no problem with that..but he adds the box's and the Authenticity Last production run certificates to catch the unwary..a user could not care less about a box etc...IMO...
Another problem is of course when these 'things' are bought in good faith they then get sold in good faith later and so ad infinitum..all because someone wants to make a substantial quick buck at someone else's expense..and he's making quite a few quick bucks at the moment......Hoo Roo.....
 
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I have an interest in a knife shop, and have sold some of the China handled Schrade USA proHunters, fillets, and sharpfingers (wholesale prices are $9.99 to 14.99). Saved a couple for myself as users, have sharpened them (I am a professional sharpener) and I believe the blade steel is 420HC, and I believe it is heat-treated just fine. Good edge holding. These are purchased through a well known wholesaler, and advertised exactly as they are. Sheaths with the ones I has sold/kept are quality oiled leather, well made, in, as advertised, the USA. My customers are thrilled to find these things, often buying an extra for son, grandson, nephew. In their mind, in mine, these are 'real' schrades. Is not the real heart & soul of a knife, the steel it is made of? Does every knife maker that stamps USA on the tang use 100% usa sourced material? Where was Schrade's delrin made? Have proof?

I don't think either of the above posters are calling me out on what I am honestly selling. I am upfront about the handles/final construction. None of my customers think that is a big deal. Close as that comes is larry303 worrying about these things ending up in the secondary market, being purchased by schrade collectors. A point or two here. You collectors here (I salute your passion for the brand) are in the tiny minority of Schrade users/buyers/collectors. Vast majority of knife users could care less about the china-made handles. Also, are you not making a huge assumption that people buying the knives mentioned above do not know exactly what they are? And can be an important part of their Schrade collection? Say a guy that has some of the earliest Shcrades (Schrade Cut company?) and wants to 'bookend' the history of the brand? Or cannot afford the price that pre-2004 schrades sell for? But I do see Larry 303's point about the extremes of selling the rehandles on 'the' auction site.

Once more, I salute you guys for your passion for the brand. No disrespect is meant here, just an opposing view
 
I have to agree G-Winstead on some of your observations, and I am a die hard Schrade USA fan. I'm all for putting all of the unused SCHRADE USA blades to good use. I am surprised they have not found their way to market sooner. The fact they are being rehandled overseas does not bother me in the least. The deceptive sellers are easy to spot. They annoy me to no end. I disagree your point Schrade USA collectors are a tiny minority. I have followed Schrade USA sales for quite some time. There are a lot of us Schrade collectors, with the number constantly increasing, and many more that have collected knives for a long time that are gaining the passion too. Add to that, the number of loyal Schrade USA users (not collectors) was huge before they went bankrupt.
 
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G
I have no opposition to "Smokey" assembling a finished product out of the blades they bought nor you or someone else selling them. What I object to is leading others to believe these were made in Ellenville and therefore collectibles to be sold at high prices, such as the seller I mentioned who listed the Teddy Roosevelt Legends PH1 knife for the price of $149.99. You said a dealer can buy them for 9.99 to 14.99. Even the public can buy the Teddy Roosevelt PH1's for for 40.00 to 50.00 and this guy has it for 149.99. I have no objection to these knives being assembled and sold as long as the truth of them is there. You are right I am not caling you out on what you are selling. If I felt that way I would not have bought some as users myself from the company that had them put together. Heck someone could buy one of the 160 or 165's at a much cheaper price and have someone like Orvet put stag handles on it if they wanted to. I was just posting a "watch out " so no one gets taken. By the way I asked the question about heat treat from someone at the company who did them and was told Schrade had already heat treated them when they bought them and they were not heat treated at the Rough Rider factory.
 
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How about posting a link to one of these knives ? As far as i know there is no BF rule that you cannot link to a live auction. As long as you have no stake in it, it is not spamming.
I'd like to see this knife that has been around the world and back and know who this specific seller is.
Be Brave: Post the Link.
roland
 
Oh yes, a notorious seller that preys on those with limited common sense. :rolleyes: Not all of his listings are all that bad though. He's always got it going on.
 
Thanks Larry. This seller is a new one to me, i've never looked at his listings before.
roland
 
Here is what the real Schrade Roosevelt knife is supposed to look like.
 

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Yes. I saw that listing of the real Shcrade built Legends knife on the 'bay too. It looks like it had a stag or stag bone handle and a presentation case. I would think the auction would be over now. The seller either had it for a buy now price of $300.00 or else that was the bid when I saw it.
 
Same seller's Sharpfinger with Chinese handle and certificate:

Made in Schrade® Ellenville New York factory before the factory closed in 2004 - each knife is 100% American made!
·Schrade+ stainless steel blade (NO LONGER MADE!)-
·Wood handle - BLACK
·Double brass rivets
·7-1/4" overall
·Lanyard hole
·GENUINE Brown Leather belt sheath

&#8226;Tang stamped "SCHRADE U.S.A. 502SC"

&#8226;CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY SCHRADE FACTORY FINAL PRODUCTION RUN

&#8226;MADE IN USA
 
Codger do you know if the Scrade built Teddy Roosevelt Legends knife had only stag hadles or was it available with several types of hanles such as the NAHC PH1 which had Curly Maple handles.
 
winchester73 said:
Codger do you know if the Scrade built Teddy Roosevelt Legends knife had only stag hadles or was it available with several types of hanles such as the NAHC PH1 which had Curly Maple handles.
Click to expand...

Larry Vickery posted the Schrade internal memo for the new product order for the knife above. As far as I am aware, they were produced exactly as specified.

Attempting to pass off a counterfiet as an original Schrade produced knife is fraud in my personal opinion. Not something an honest man would do and not something an honest man would condone.

If the blades came from the bins of extra parts at the Schrade auction and were shipped overseas, or really, assembled with incorrect handles and hardware by anyone anywhere after production ceased at Imperial Schrade, it is not an original Schrade knife. An honest seller would describe the knife honestly. A shady one would leave a lot unsaid. A dishonest one would tout the knife to be something it is not.
 
The factory order says genuine stag. I would expect it to be so. I'll look through my photo archives and see if I have a picture of one. You might look through the collectors' corners photos on the COSRUS archive site to see if a picture is there.
 
Also Codger, or others. i wonder if these originals were the usual 440a (or 420HC) or a higher grade steel. It would be interesting to know, although there would be little use in making them with higher grade steels as I can't imagine someone actually using it. It would be just to look at or display.
 
It would be nice if we could zoroknives post the bogus listings, but rules are rules.
 
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