Buyers, what brings you to a show???

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Dec 3, 1999
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I know this has been brought up here before, but I thought with the buzz of the San Antonio show still floating around in my head it would be a good time to bring it up again! :)


So what drives you to attend a show???

Kevin Jones and I talked about this a little in Texas and we both firmly agree that knife shows HAVE TO stay alive. While there's no doubt we all can understand the notion that if you stay home and buy from your computer/phone you can put anywhere from a couple hundred dollars to thousands of dollars in travel expenses toward a knife.

However, there is absolutely no substitute for FEELING a knife. I had more comments on the feel of Jim Cooper's integral than the looks of it... even with an AMAZING photographer like Jim... there's still no substitute for feel.

So how as makers... do we get you guys to the shows??? :)


THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!:)
 
The only shows I attend on a regular basis are very small, but vastly different. First is the Frederick Knife Show, a small show put on near DC/Baltimore in the foothills of western MD. This show sometimes features makers, but very rarely. I've only been twice, and other than meeting LT Wright from Blind Horse Knives, before Blind Horse Knives, I have not met any other knife makers. This show is only a few hours away from me, I can visit Edgeworks knife shop only about a 5 minute drive away, and can enjoy hiking in the local parks etc. This show is in April, not a bad time of year, but I think it could do better at another time. I missed an opportunity to acquire a Bob Dozier folder for approximately $400.00, in immaculate condition. I usually have a good amount of knives to trade at this show. For the most part, I enjoy visiting the area. I don't spend a lot at the show, but I do buy some items. Mostly, I am trading. So, Nick, for your answer, I would say location brings me back to this small show.

The second show is the Chesapeake Knife Show, in Timonium MD. Compared to the Frederick show, the Chesapeake show is sensory overload. The first time I went, I was literally astounded by the variety of knives, and makers. The first show I went to was like a blur, I actually remember more of the second one. The second one was a lot of fun. I only live about a half hour away, but would prefer to get a hotel room this year. There is a small get together with members from Jerzee Devil, and a small get together for table exhibitors the night before. The variety and number of custom knife makers and custom knife purveyors was great for the small venue. What brings me back every year is the diversity of knives offered to the public, and the chance to meet and interact with the many knifemakers there, and to see old friends.

I am debating on going to the Easton knife show next month. I am under the impression that it is not a large show, but I figure it couldn't hurt to go once. The show venue is approximately two hours from me, in an area where I don't normally visit. What would bring me back next year? Quality workmanship, exhibitors that are friendly to the public that is just looking (I've looked at many shows, and followed up with email orders ;)).

Most of all, I appreciate a lot of variety at shows. My interests are varied. I like slipjoints, tactical folders and bushcraft themed blades and choppers. The Frederick show is geared more towards slipjoints and antique knives. The Chesapeake show has a great variety of knives available. I will stop at the Frederick show because it is an excuse to visit the area, and spend a weekend out camping, or running the roads.
 
Take my opinion with a grain of salt because I am small time when it comes to buying and collecting knives.

At least 75% of the knife shows I have gone to were because of an invitation. Not a mass email, but a personal email or phone call telling me about the show and inviting me to attend. Even when at the last minute I thought I was too busy and might skip the show, I still went because I said I would. I enjoyed myself every time. It is an added plus when the person who invited me saw me at the show and told me they were glad I could make it.
 
How do you get me to a show? A show must offer more than just forged blades to get me there. But that's just me. One day I'm sure to start in on a forged blade here or there, but it will probably be by attending a multi-discipline show rather than the Expo, for this reason.

Best,

Bob Betzner
 
Eddie:D My Partner Eddie usually drives:p

I love going to the shows buying or not to see all the beautiful work and I love to Talk to the Makers:thumbup:
 
This sort of reminds me of the whole, "how do we get more collectors" thing. And its a good question. I think more people would attend shows if custom knives became more main stream but it seems nearly impossible to accomplish that. SHows are super important. There have been knives that just jump out when you see them, even if they didn't from a good photo. And some knives just arent as nice in person as the photo shows. All we can do is just keep attending shows and maybe bring friends. Not sure how else to fix the situation. I hope for the sake of all of the makers and the collectors collections, that custom knives stay popular and don't lose momentum.
 
I go because I am drawn by the total show experience, or else I stay home. While the internet can never replace shows, if one's primary purpose in attending shows is getting knives, then there really IS no need to leave the comfort of the computer chair. There are more knives available to me right now either from:

1) makers with reasonable delivery times
2) makers with spec knives or unsold show knives
3) dealers
4) other collectors..

...than I could ever hope to afford. All with a few keystrokes and clicks of the mouse. No airfare, hotel or vacation time used. And while there IS no substitute for the feel of a knife in hand, when it comes to makers whose work I am well familiar with, I don't NEED to hold the knife in hand to make a purchase decision. Show me picture of a table full of Russ Andrews, Burt Foster, Jason Knight, John White, Nick Wheeler, Dan Farr, Lin Rhea knives etc. (it's a long list, but you get the point) - and I can rank them in my personal got-to-have priority in far less time than I have taken to type this sentence. If getting knives is the question, shows are no longer the answer. And that didn't happen yesterday.

But I do attend shows, and do feel that they are worthwhile from both an entertainment and informational standpoint. You will certainly learn more about different makers and where they are at by attending one good show than by surfing the 'net for a year. So... what was your question again? :o Oh yeah - what drives me to attend a show: the total show experience.

Including (not in order):

1) Location - is it some place that's otherwise nice to be?
2) Accessibility: can I get there from here without two connecting flights, a $150 cab fare and bouncy ride on a disagreeable mule?
3) Hotel - is it nice enough that I could conceivably bring my wife without her giving me that "Are you kidding??" look on check-in?
4) Makers - are there enough of the type of knives that I am interested in to make it worth the journey? I'm probably not hopping on a plane to a tactical show.
5) My peeps - are a bunch of the guys I really enoy hanging with going to be there? This can be a strong pull.
6) Atmoshphere - I love Blade - crazy non-stop knife overload. I love Little Rock - laid back, easy-going, unbelievably friendly and welcoming. I need to have an idea of what the "feel" of the show is before I go, and that information isn't always readily attainable.
7) Show-specific events - cutting championships, organization banquets, MS / JS testing - what's on offer?

All of the above make shows worthwhile to me when enough of those factors are addressed. Then it's a matter of juggling work and family commitments which tend, for me, to be the ultiate limiting factors.

Roger
 
Take my opinion with a grain of salt because I am small time when it comes to buying and collecting knives.

At least 75% of the knife shows I have gone to were because of an invitation. Not a mass email, but a personal email or phone call telling me about the show and inviting me to attend. Even when at the last minute I thought I was too busy and might skip the show, I still went because I said I would. I enjoyed myself every time. It is an added plus when the person who invited me saw me at the show and told me they were glad I could make it.

That's a valid point. When someone takes a personal interest in my being there - promoter / maker / collector - it sure doesn't hurt.

Roger
 
My opinion is probably different than most, as I simply don't have the disposable income to buy the knives I would like to. That being said, I have been going to Blade because of several contributing factors:

1) It is a multi-faceted adventure comprised of a 1000 mi. + bike ride to get there, with numerous options of side trips along the way such as cruising the Blue Ridge mountains.

2) The sensory overload of the largest show in the world, meeting and spending time with so many great knifemakers, engravers, collectors, dealers, etc., and having the opportunity to hold many of the best knives on the planet.

3) Going to Scott Pilkington's "Engrave-In" following the show in the rural mountains of Tennessee.

4) Another 1000 mi. + ride on the way home.

Additionally, i'll go to any show that is a reasonable drive from home in a place I am not uncomfortable being.

Peter
 
This sort of reminds me of the whole, "how do we get more collectors" thing. And its a good question. I think more people would attend shows if custom knives became more main stream but it seems nearly impossible to accomplish that. SHows are super important.
Jon brings up an important point. Like he infers it comes up again and again.

Knives are under fire. We ALL know when we talk to a new acquaintance about our passion for this, either as a collector or artist, their eyes open just a bit wider in modern astonishment.

Thinking out loud: What else draws people in to spend discretionary income?

Knives, Watches, Flashlights, Pens, even Jewelry or Art... they all have a custom base, too.

No one wants to share a piece of their pie, but if the pie as a whole is shrinking, possibly joining forces with one or two of the above may sustain the ability to produce a show. And may key in the interest for new and seasoned collectors to participate.

There are many reasons to say this won't work, and many possibilities to declare it might.

Coop
 
I will tell you.......in no uncertain terms......an unquenchable lust for MORE COOL STUFF!!!! ;)
 
Like you said until you handle and use a blade you have no real knowledge of the ergonomics or attention to detail the maker put into the blade... but I think the biggest reason is community. Like minded people interested in the same thing having good conversations and farthering their field... you see it in all sorts of arenas. Look at air shows... People fly all over the world for EAA, the Miami Airshow, Farnborough, Paris, etc.
 
Nick, the top 10 makers at the show...bring so few knives and are in such demand their show is a sell out before they get there.

Makers such as yourself who have a big demand and make so few knives...their show is a sell out.

So the real question is what can the second tier makers and the new makers do to increase their sales at the show

Custom knife shows have bee no the decline since the late 1980's...the two exceptions...The Blade Show and the AKI.

The two main factors that impact on custom knife show attendance:

1) The Internet

2) The amount of other shows.

While it may not seem like it in the custom forums...custom knives are the smallest niche market with the the larger knife market. Primarily because of the cost of these knives. Yes, to most people $100 is a lot of money for a knife.

Then you find a niche within a niche and that makes the collector base even smaller. As Bob pointed out the Expo is all forged blades. Many of the makers attending are not well known or even known outside the ABS Circles. I went through last years attendee's before the show and noticed there were several makers I had never heard of...and I know most of the makers out there.

This told me that they probably did little or no advertising and/or were from outside the US. Nothing wrong with that, but one of the things that will get collectors to a show...are makers the collectors have heard of and collect...not makers that the other makers have hear of. Makers are notorious for not buying knives.

Tom made a comment about more "Cool" stuff. Ok, question...what is "Cool" stuff? So that comment is really of no help. Specifics Tom...Specifics. And what do you base the popularity of those "Cool" items. Next, will they bring people to a knife show...as opposed to another venue that may better services that niche.

Coop pointed out:
Watches, Flashlights, Pens, even Jewelry or Art... they all have a custom base, too.

All of these have limited niche following as well. There are watch shows, Pen Shows, Jewelry and Art Shows...haven't heard of a Flashlight show...but it wouldn't surprise me if they have one somewhere.

Yes, all of these may intersect at some point on the collectible graph somewhere. But where and at one point? Most of the time when you see the aforementioned collectibles they are usually an after thought on a dealers table. Generally bu those guys who don't have enough knives to cover the table...or who dabble in a little of everything.

It is their choice, if that product mix works for them...then by all means that is what they should do!

On a previous thread someone was complaining about that at the NY/NJ shows they no longer had factory knives. This is first and foremost a custom knife show....not custom/factory show. You can hit the local gun show and find any factory knife you want.

Back to Nick's question:
So how as makers... do we get you guys to the shows???

Yes a nice hotel, in a nice climate, with easy access in and out of the show locations...good restaurants, night life, etc. are all nice.

The reality is the collectors come to the shows to meet the makers and BUY the knives and see the knives.

Too many collectors have come to shows only to see the maker are sold out and worse yet...the maker is not behind the table.

Here are some suggestions on how to help more collectors into the shows.

1) Teach makers how to price their knives. Most makers (especially new ones) do not know how to do this. A larger percentage of makers at any given show will have most of their knives overpriced for their position in the market. Value priced knives will bring in the collectors.

2) Teach makers how to treat their knife making as a business...instead of a hobby.

A) You actually stay behind your table for the duration of the show..or at least peak hours. You are there to introduce your self to collectors and other potential buyers. Too many makers can't wait to leave their table to talk with other makers.

B) Buy your materials before the show opens to the general public...this will allow you to be behind your tables.

C) Have professional photos of your knives on your table. So if you sell out you can at least show people what your knives look like.

D) Bring more than 2 knives to the show. I realize that the top 5 makers may not have to do this (their contribution to the show is being a draw for collectors to get in the show...most of these makers have already talked with their collector base about the knives prior to the show).

If you want to become a fan favorite...have knives for Friday and Saturday. Nothing pisses off the collector who drives 5 hours to get to a show on Saturday (because they had to work Friday) and the maker didn't have any knives...and is not even behind their table.

Yes, perhaps he should have contacted the maker before the show. The solution...a mailing list for collectors. You go through it and email an invite collectors to the show...if they are good enough collector you have a free pass waiting at the door for them.

You can feature every knife on your website.

What does all this inviting and photography and having several knives for the show entail???? Prior planning on the makers part....the business aspect.

Oh and for God's sake get the friggin sheath done for the knife before you get to the show. Again....prior planning.

However, there is absolutely no substitute for FEELING a knife. I had more comments on the feel of Jim Cooper's integral than the looks of it... even with an AMAZING photographer like Jim... there's still no substitute for feel.

In theory...yes. The reality is for most collectors that is not that case. Most collectors want it and they want it yesterday. There are two reasons this thinking is flawed:

1) When I was doing the LDC Knives and to date the 55 Vanguard knives. I would put the prototype on my table at a show (Not For Sale) and it would annoy people to no end.

My thinking like yours was, this would allow collectors to see and handle the knife. They didn't want to place an order...they wanted that knife...now. To the point that I stopped putting prototypes on the table. Caused everyone a lot less grief.

2) You are implying that there will be knives on the table when the collectors get there. I realize for the Expo that there was a preview period on Friday for the Expo...what about Saturday? Most of those later comers were SOL. Unless you had real good pictures of the knives. How many of the knives purchased by collectors are they going to allow to remain on the makers table for other collectors to come by and "finger" their knives, perhaps drop them or bang them against another knife (We have all seen the last two happen at shows)

This is why Sunday is such a throw away day for shows (Exception...the Blade Show..only because there are still new knives to see)...lets face it most if not all the knives from the top makers are sold on Friday. Saturday rounds out the majority of collectors. Sunday is primarily for collectors looking for a deal. Even making the Expo a 100 table show (Moving it will cause some scheduling difficulties with makers who want to set up at that show and the Arkansas show 3 weeks later...that prior planning thing will come into play again)

Basically those two shows will cannibalize each other to a degree.

The reality is that a custom knife show requires 3 components:

1) Location

2) Table Holders (who end up pay for the show promoter to have the money to secure the location, pay for security and insurance (among other things).

Lets face it, it could be the greatest location in the world..but without table holders there would be no reason to come.

3) Attendee's. They are there to look, handle, buy, sell and trade! This group has a direct affect on the second group...if they don't spend money...the show will not be profitable for the table holder.

These three components make up a show...if one is lacking...it will directly affect the other two.

Given the ease of getting both information and access to custom knives and their makers (via websites). The need to actually go to a show has been minimized. The economic impact felt by certain sectors, ill ease about flying to shows (worries about knives been lost or stolen out of luggage) and the cost are having negative impacts on show attendance.

Ok Nick question back to you...what is the one aspect of collecting that is shared by all the collectors. Arguably in the Internet era this may be the most important aspect of a show.
 
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I've heard this "save knives for Saturday" suggestion before Les, and I understand the thinking behind it. But it cuts both ways. A guy makes the effort to get to the show for opening day, but isn't quite fast enough to the table of Hot Maker. Knives sold in the first few minutes. Hey, it happens. He takes a forlorn glance at the knives on the table, all with SOLD signs on them, sighs and walks away. Disappointed? Yes. Pissed off? No.

Saturday afternoon he strolls by and sees two NEW knives on the table, also with SOLD signs on them. Can you hear the loud WTF?? from across the hall? And when he ears that Bubba who strolled in brunch-ish on Saturday snapped them up when his own money wasn't any good Friday, he's a long way toward pissed off.

If I get to a show a day late, I don't expect the really hot / high demand makers to still have a selection of knives available. I'm pleasantly surprised if he does, but I'm not feeling cheated if he doesn't.

Roger
 
Hi Roger,

You don't hold a grudge because you are always ahead of the power curve and get the hot knives...before they are hot! :D

I realize it is an imperfect system. Quite frankly...first come...first served.

I know Rick Hinder has knives on Friday and Saturday. However, he knows he will sell out even before he gets there. Rick make sure every one knows there will be knives on both days...at least he puts up a sign at his booth or table. As well all of his knives are by drawing.

So no one is strolling by at brunch-ish on Saturday and has the ability to purchase a knife.

I know in addition to Rick, RJ Martin and Ernie Emerson did that at the NYCKS (Now the NJCKS) last November.

My point to this was that it what Rick is doing is about as fair as it can get.

As you well know the reality of knife shows is: Be there when the doors open, get to the makers table first....and get your money out and buy the knife. If you don't...then you have no reason to bitch...even though some will.
 
Fair enough - if the maker lets it be known that he will hold stuff back for Saturday first thing - and is consistent in that approach - then that mitigates against the downside. By the way - that example I gave wasn't hypethetical - I saw it happen and I sympathized with the guy.

Of course it bears repeating the obvious - you'll never please everyone no matter what you do.

Roger
 
Thanks for all the replies guys :)

I have enjoyed reading through your thoughts on this! :)


Les- maybe I'm misunderstanding your question or where you're going with it... But my answer to what all collectors have in common - Is a passion for what THEY collect.

Which of course is as varied as could possibly be.

I am intrigued to know just what you're thinking with that question :)


Thanks folks!!! :)
 
Hi Nick,

Passion has always been there.

I was specifically looking at a marketing aspect that most shows neglect.

The "Pit" is the perfect example of what I am talking about.

It is the "Camaraderie". Which is a type of passion...but it goes beyond merely a passion for the knives...but the ability to share the passion and the experience. Their fascination for these expensive knives is something that their family and friends do not understand. These collectors have found this camaraderie on the Internet and now are looking forward to the "human experience" that we all crave. So many forumites are now using shows to meet face to face. At the Blade Show many of the more popular forums actually have a table or booth.

There are offers of "Forum Dinners" and other "meet and greets."

When I do my seminar at any show...I always welcome the attendee's to the "Period of Enlightenment". I use this term because at custom knife shows...everyone there "Gets it". They understand why someone would pay $5,000 for a knife...or pay double for a knife....or wait for hours to be part of a drawing...etc.

The show promoters and organizations that put on shows need to tap into this. Sunday is not the day for this...most of the collectors are long gone. This may be a day for makers to get together. Want to find out which day has the most collectors?

It is a pretty easy thing to do...just count the gate on each day. Even better make a note of the times that paying public come in to the show.

As well they can ask for their email address (insuring privacy). This will allow an invitation to from the show directly to the client. As they were there before...you can include a coupon in the email.

Ask the makers for the names and emails of the customers who bought a knife...they get free admission next year.

Lots of things can be done to make the collectors feel special and wanted.

Not picking on the Expo...but instead of trying to create a "Dress Code" or what type of hat to wear...focus on what it is going to take to get custom knife buyers through the door.

I have been going to shows for 26 years and this concept/idea still seems to be a nebulous one to show promoters...particularly shows run by makers.

Nick, the fact is that custom knife making is primarily a "hobby" for the makers and the majority of collectors just want to buy what catches their eye.

Another question for you Nick give me three things you would do to get collectors through the door...specifically collectors who will buy a knife?
 
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