Buying a grinder, Coote, grinder in a box,other?

mxlj

mxlj

Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Messages
121
Im getting ready to purchase my first 2x72 grinder. I have been looking at a coote grinder and the grinder in a box from polarbear forge, or any others out there that anyone recommends? Ideas, Pro's/cons' to each one? I am trying to stay under a grand for budget. Any good used one for sale that need new home also, let me know.
I have been using a 1x30 HF and 4x36 HF for the last year, so any grinder will be a big upgrade. I was looking at the kalamzoo but seen the coote was more recommended. Plus you use step pulleys on it. Now with the grinder in the box is it direct drive. I may or may not be buying a VFD.
What motor speeds are recommended for a 3 step pulley set up? or the direct drive style? Does it matter on the direct drive if you are going to be using a VFD or not? thank you, Larry
 
Disclaimer: We sell grinders out of your price range. I also own a Coote and while it has it's drawbacks, I would say it is a well built machine. It is a HUGE upgrade from the machines you are currently using. It can be adapted easily to a variable speed either with VFD (best) or a set of step pulleys which Norm Coote can sell you.

For most people, the Coote is not the end game - but is is a good solution. They say it's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

I have no experience with grinder in a box. I guess that depends on how much of a do-it-yourselfer you are. A three wheel design is almost universally better than a two wheel.

Rob!
 
If you dont own a drill press, and the ability to tap a hole without breaking the tap then dont get this grinder. Its a great grinder but you need slight fabrication skills to finish it without frustration. I agree with my friend above that a three wheel grinder is better than a two wheel grinder.
THe GIB is a direct drive grinder, and needs a 3600 rpm motor. Can be a vfd/variable or fixed. Depends on your budget.
Non direct drive grinders usually require a 1800 rpm motor. But that also depends on the size of your drive wheel.
 
The coote is a fine grinder and is built like a tank but has its limitations because of the two wheel design. We bought a small wheel attachment for ours and its used as much as the contact wheel is.
A ceramic platen helps the coote a lot, like it does any grinder.
All in all its a fine grinder. A step above the grizzly and a step below the three wheel grinders.
 
KnifeMaker.ca said:
Disclaimer: We sell grinders out of your price range. I also own a Coote and while it has it's drawbacks, I would say it is a well built machine. It is a HUGE upgrade from the machines you are currently using. It can be adapted easily to a variable speed either with VFD (best) or a set of step pulleys which Norm Coote can sell you.

For most people, the Coote is not the end game - but is is a good solution. They say it's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

I have no experience with grinder in a box. I guess that depends on how much of a do-it-yourselfer you are. A three wheel design is almost universally better than a two wheel.

Rob!
Click to expand...

blindhogg said:
If you dont own a drill press, and the ability to tap a hole without breaking the tap then dont get this grinder. Its a great grinder but you need slight fabrication skills to finish it without frustration. I agree with my friend above that a three wheel grinder is better than a two wheel grinder.
THe GIB is a direct drive grinder, and needs a 3600 rpm motor. Can be a vfd/variable or fixed. Depends on your budget.
Non direct drive grinders usually require a 1800 rpm motor. But that also depends on the size of your drive wheel.
Click to expand...

Drilling a couple of holes and tapping them isn't that hard, neither is taking them to a shop to get it done, but the other thing is the GIB isn't that much cheaper than the Bee Metal grinders:o

When all is said and done, my GIB will have run me just over $1100, with economy wheels. The only reason I went with the GIB is I could spread the cost over a few month, making the large ticket purchases every couple of months. Keep in mind I got basically a new 1.5ph 3 phase motor for $50 so If I had bought that new I could add another $300 to the bill, bringing the cost up to $1400. The 1hp Bee Metal grinder with variable speed is just over $2300, figure in the cost of assembly, the better wheels, and the warranty that comes with it I didn't save much money. Yes you could build the GIB cheaper, but why do that.
 
I did so many comparisons between a GIB, a NWG, Coote, Grizzly, KMG, etc. that I almost lost my mind. My KMG arrived last week and I started using it this last weekend and I couldn't be happier.

The way I saw it:

I immediately decided that I had to have multiple speeds. For the GIB, this meant I had to add a VFD to the cost for comparisons. It also meant the Grizzly was out from the start.

Also, I started with the pre-built frame and tooling arms from USA Knifemaker for comparisons since I didn't want to have to build the entire thing myself from parts I had to source locally.

So:

GIB = $721.44 (per the worksheet on Polar Bear Forge's website) + $375 for a VFD + $40 in tooling (I don't have the taps necessary) + $25 in misc. parts/bolts/etc. = $1,161.44

NWG = $394 (including shipping) for the frame kit + $225.00 for the motor + $375 in misc. parts (pulley's, wheels, platen set up, drive belt, etc.) = $994.00

KMG = $750 for flat platen set up + $90 shipping + $38 to change one of the platen wheels to a 2" contact wheel + $10 for the drive belt + $225 for the motor + $40 for the pulleys (from USA Knifemaker) = $1,153

Coote = $425.00 + $40 shipping (guess as I never got a quote) + $225.00 for the motor + $10 for drive belt + $40 for pulley's = $740.00

When I put it all on paper, the first two really didn't hold a candle to the KMG. The resale on the KMG, the support should something go awry, the long standing history of the product, etc. made the extra couple hundred dollars over a NWG easy. The GIB would have come with a VFD for the same money, but I didn't feel that added benefit was worth the extra hassle of having to put it together, worry about breaking a tap off and having to get a new piece, etc. It just wasn't worth it.

The Coote made the best argument against a KMG for me in my situation (I've never even made a knife for crying out loud, I'm doing this for fun), but ultimately I found I wanted the added advantage of the tooling arm changes and the accessories that are available for the KMG should I ever want them.
 
watercrawl said:
I did so many comparisons between a GIB, a NWG, Coote, Grizzly, KMG, etc. that I almost lost my mind.
Click to expand...

I had a similar dilemma but decided on the GIB (without VFD which I'm already starting to regret but this will be my first real grinder so I guess I won't know what I'm missing out on...) because I could get 1/2", 1" 1 1/2", 2", 3", 4", 6" & 8" contact wheels for roughly the same price as the kmg. Part of the draw to the gib for me was actually the fact that I had to put it together... Yup, I broke a tap off but luckily it was in a hole that didn't necessarily need to be tapped so I guess I got lucky. I agree with the resale comment, that the kmg will likely hold its value better than my gib but I really don't plan on ever selling it so that part didn't really seem to sway my decision in the least.

One thing that did sway my decision, when I had originally considered a coote as well, was the ability to have many different interchangeable tool arms. On my gib I have a flat platen with (2) 2" contact wheels, a rotating platen with 8" & 3" contact wheels and I've ordered the gear to have another rotating platen with 4" & 6" wheels and a small wheel attachment for the <2" wheels. I wanted to build a grinder that could handle anything I wanted to do with it and that left me hung up at either the gib or kmg. So far I'm very happy with my decision, but I'll tell ya, I haven't finished setting up my grinder yet, but she's close! She still needs a few more parts and her makeup put on...

Good luck with your decision; many solid platforms out there. Invision what you'll want to do with it, narrow it down to your top two, make your final decision, sleep on it and see how you feel about it the next morning.
 
blindhogg said:
THe GIB is a direct drive grinder, and needs a 3600 rpm motor. Can be a vfd/variable or fixed. Depends on your budget.
Non direct drive grinders usually require a 1800 rpm motor. But that also depends on the size of your drive wheel.
Click to expand...

Why would the gib need a 3450 motor?
 
Neither type requires a specific RPM motor, you just need to size your drivewheel(s) appropriately. It may be a little easier, however, to manage speed with certain RPM motors. For example, you will need a rather large drivewheel to get speed out of a slower motor.
 
Yup the most expensive part of my GIB is the KBAC-27D VFD. There were three big ticket items for me to build mine, the VFD, the kit itself, and the wheels. It is a solidly built grinder and will most likely out last me, well I may go for more horse power in the future, and as time goes on and if I ever feel the need to sell mine I am sure that I would get most of my money back on it. Now I am off to put together my Crawford Etcher, just got my transformer and case today. Time to drill holes and melt solder.

amcardon said:
I had a similar dilemma but decided on the GIB (without VFD which I'm already starting to regret but this will be my first real grinder so I guess I won't know what I'm missing out on...) because I could get 1/2", 1" 1 1/2", 2", 3", 4", 6" & 8" contact wheels for roughly the same price as the kmg. Part of the draw to the gib for me was actually the fact that I had to put it together... Yup, I broke a tap off but luckily it was in a hole that didn't necessarily need to be tapped so I guess I got lucky. I agree with the resale comment, that the kmg will likely hold its value better than my gib but I really don't plan on ever selling it so that part didn't really seem to sway my decision in the least.

One thing that did sway my decision, when I had originally considered a coote as well, was the ability to have many different interchangeable tool arms. On my gib I have a flat platen with (2) 2" contact wheels, a rotating platen with 8" & 3" contact wheels and I've ordered the gear to have another rotating platen with 4" & 6" wheels and a small wheel attachment for the <2" wheels. I wanted to build a grinder that could handle anything I wanted to do with it and that left me hung up at either the gib or kmg. So far I'm very happy with my decision, but I'll tell ya, I haven't finished setting up my grinder yet, but she's close! She still needs a few more parts and her makeup put on...

Good luck with your decision; many solid platforms out there. Invision what you'll want to do with it, narrow it down to your top two, make your final decision, sleep on it and see how you feel about it the next morning.
Click to expand...
 
Without a doubt, no questions asked......Get a KMG and never have that "what if" thought running through your mind!!!!!!!
 
While I will admit that I am biased a little bit, I do believe that all the grinders listed have a place depending on each person's criteria.

watercrawl did a very nice comparison and is very good example of what meets his particular needs.

I think that amcardon has some really good thought process on this," Invision what you'll want to do with it, narrow it down to your top two, make your final decision, sleep on it and see how you feel about it the next morning."

Jamie
 
watercrawl said:
I did so many comparisons between a GIB, a NWG, Coote, Grizzly, KMG, etc. that I almost lost my mind. My KMG arrived last week and I started using it this last weekend and I couldn't be happier.

The way I saw it:

I immediately decided that I had to have multiple speeds. For the GIB, this meant I had to add a VFD to the cost for comparisons. It also meant the Grizzly was out from the start.

Also, I started with the pre-built frame and tooling arms from USA Knifemaker for comparisons since I didn't want to have to build the entire thing myself from parts I had to source locally.

So:

GIB = $721.44 (per the worksheet on Polar Bear Forge's website) + $375 for a VFD + $40 in tooling (I don't have the taps necessary) + $25 in misc. parts/bolts/etc. = $1,161.44

NWG = $394 (including shipping) for the frame kit + $225.00 for the motor + $375 in misc. parts (pulley's, wheels, platen set up, drive belt, etc.) = $994.00

KMG = $750 for flat platen set up + $90 shipping + $38 to change one of the platen wheels to a 2" contact wheel + $10 for the drive belt + $225 for the motor + $40 for the pulleys (from USA Knifemaker) = $1,153

Coote = $425.00 + $40 shipping (guess as I never got a quote) + $225.00 for the motor + $10 for drive belt + $40 for pulley's = $740.00

When I put it all on paper, the first two really didn't hold a candle to the KMG. The resale on the KMG, the support should something go awry, the long standing history of the product, etc. made the extra couple hundred dollars over a NWG easy. The GIB would have come with a VFD for the same money, but I didn't feel that added benefit was worth the extra hassle of having to put it together, worry about breaking a tap off and having to get a new piece, etc. It just wasn't worth it.

The Coote made the best argument against a KMG for me in my situation (I've never even made a knife for crying out loud, I'm doing this for fun), but ultimately I found I wanted the added advantage of the tooling arm changes and the accessories that are available for the KMG should I ever want them.
Click to expand...
That's a good breakdown.
In your comparison, I think that is a key point that I missed when I just looked at the $#'s
The control gained on a VFD can't compare to 3 speed pulleys which works out to 1/4 1/2 and 1x the full speed.

Once you make that comparison level across the board by factoring that additional cost of a VFD setup,even if purchased from other than Rob Frink, the KMG is still $500 or more higher than the KMG. But for those who prefer to buy working machines, it is their choice to pay that.
 
thank you all for the good info, I also have been thinking about the kmg and nwg also. What are the advantages to a 3 wheel vs 2 wheel grinder?
 
Also note that you're getting a sizable contact wheel with the Coote for less money. Apples to apples comparison wouldn't show these grinders being so close to each other in cost. Nothing against the KMG, of course, I've ground many many knives on them. I'm also a Bader fanboy, but left them out since the OP didn't seem to have that price range. If it came down to a NIB three wheel, I'd get a Bader without thinking twice. If nothing else, because I prefer the direct drive.

Three wheel grinders have the advantage of quick-change tooling, more accessories and, generally, better belt tracking. They can also be more lenient in belt length in some circumstances. Two wheel grinders are generally very limited in accessories and pretty much lock you into a specific contact wheel size.
 
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