Buying a New "Traditional" Knife Sight Unseen

[Rick]

Buying a modern factory knife on the web is simple: pick your flat, soulless-looking slab of black G-10, hit "add to cart" and you're good to go. They all look pretty much alike, and aside from a few hopefully minor tolerance variations, they offer no real surprises, pleasant or otherwise.

But what about traditional knives with natural handle scales or acrylics? These materials often vary wildly from one knife to the next--that's what makes them so interesting--but getting a 'good one,' or at least an example of the material that piques your aesthetic fancy can be a real crapshoot.

There are some materials that I flat out refuse to buy sight unseen; stag being right at the top of the list. This material runs the gamut from achingly beautiful to downright ugly, at least as far as I'm concerned, and the scales can be well-matched or look like they came from two very different taxonomic groups. I need to see both sides of a stag handle before I plunk that puppy down into my virtual shopping cart.

Same goes for many acrylics. Take GEC's popular "Lava Lamp" for example. One handle might resemble a complex flowing jigsaw puzzle, while another appears more or less uniform beige with an insignificant little swirl near one edge.

Likewise various hardwoods with complex grain patterns like snakewood or ironwood. Some of this stuff looks gorgeous and comes well-matched, and some...not so much.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, of course, but that's the point. This particular beholder doesn't like surprises unless they come gift wrapped.

I'll usually take a chance on jigged or smooth bone, ebony, Micarta and other more or less uniform-looking materials, but for the rest, if an on-line dealer wants my business, they need to show me both sides of the actual knife I'm buying, even if I have to pay a little extra for the privilege.

How about you? Will you trust the appearance of your new knife to luck, or do you demand to see what you're buying on-line up front?

 

[Modoc ED]

Oh yeah. I'll take a stab in the dark almost anytime. I always expect the best handle slab to be on the shield side of the knife; however, I rarely run into a knife where the handles are really different from side to side.

 

[JAB]

I'll very rarely buy a knife with natural handle material online if the dealer/seller doesn't provide decent pics of both sides.

 

[Absintheur]

With Case Bone you can just about expect to get what you have in mind. Some of the set pattern acrylics you also know what you are going to get...for example if you see a duck feather advertised you know it will look like this:

However with stag I would never buy blind. Here are two AG Russell Mohawk Canoes, the one on the left was sold on the bay to someone other than myself, the one on the right I own. But if I ordered blind how would I know which one I would get?

 

[Pipeman]

My Daughter just ordered a GEC executive whittler in black and gold acrylic for me today for my birthday ;-). I've seen a few of the acrylic whittlers and it looks like they got a pretty uniform run. They only made 97 in total, 50 serialized and 47 unserialized.
I buy a couple of hundred new pocket knives a year on the net mostly jigged bone and 99% of them are fine.

Regards

Robin

 

[WA Martin]

Even with pictues it is still a shot in the dark.

I bought a Case scout jr based on the picture (forgot to check the measurements or I wouldn't have gotten it). Don't like the color the bone turned out to have but I laid it down on my desk and it disappeared. Too late to return now.

Maybe I'll sharpen it and use it eventually...

 

[cnas122]

I've been screwed too many times to buy it sight unseen unless I know the seller. Of course I take the scales into consideration, but if you are buying an old knife, whether or not the steel has been reworked, or some other modification, worries me the most. Usually if I'm spending more than a few bucks on it, I will ask for them to send me closeup pics of several areas of the knife to look for fishy details.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I've had pretty good experiences with buying stag-handled knives. In cases where the seller didn't provide pics, or if the default pics were poorly lit/focused/etc., I always ask if they would be willing to email a few more pics to me, showing both sides of the handle. In all but one case, they provided more pics and made a sale as a result. In the one case where the seller wasn't willing to provide additional pics, they didn't get my business. It's that simple for me. I figure any dealer who's offering stag knives ought to appreciate the variation in appearance and/or quality, and be willing to accomodate a potetial buyer's request for additional details. If they're not willing, buy from somebody who is.

 

[cj65]

My Daughter just ordered a GEC executive whittler in black and gold acrylic for me today for my birthday ;-). I've seen a few of the acrylic whittlers and it looks like they got a pretty uniform run. They only made 97 in total, 50 serialized and 47 unserialized.
I buy a couple of hundred new pocket knives a year on the net mostly jigged bone and 99% of them are fine.

Regards

Robin

Dear Robin,

May I be in your will?

Sincerely,

your long lost stepson CJ

 

[338375]

After growing and learning a little in the slip joint game, I always want pics of both sides. There is always the potential for the scales being grossly mismatched, or possibly even having one side replaced. or it may have damage that the seller has "forgotten" to mention in the add....
The fact that it can be a pain to return something makes me even more cautious.
It doesn't take any more effort to take pics of both sides and include them in the add when the item is listed for sale.
Stag is an absolute must see both sides. No exceptions for me on that one...
I collect earlier Case knives with red bone scales. These are notorious for having beautifully colored scales on one side, while the other side has coloring that is so dark it is almost black. I will look at a lot of red bone knives and only buy a few. Those that I buy have closely matching scales with a lot of color.

When I see an add for a knife and it only shows one side, I get a little red flag that goes up. There is a reason they only wanted the good side shown, so what is wrong with the other side?

 

[knarfeng]

I don't buy pricey knives, so:
1) my standards are probably lower than those of most of the fellas.
2) If I do get something that is less than perfect, it's a shoulder shrug thing.

So I am willing to buy sight unseen and trust the dealer not to send me a real dog.

I counter this by only buying from outfits I trust.
For instance, Mike has always done right by me. So has Kenny.

 

[thawk]

...
I collect earlier Case knives with red bone scales. These are notorious for having beautifully colored scales on one side, while the other side has coloring that is so dark it is almost black. I will look at a lot of red bone knives and only buy a few. Those that I buy have closely matching scales with a lot of color.

When I see an add for a knife and it only shows one side, I get a little red flag that goes up. There is a reason they only wanted the good side shown, so what is wrong with the other side?

With Case red bone, particularly the XX and XX USA era, was the dark color on one side done on purpose? Does red bone pretty much stay the same color, or does it darken or lighten as it ages?

 

[Absintheur]

Sometimes you do get pleasantly surprised buying blind...or nearly blind. I recently bid on a Fight'n Rooster that might as well of not had pics, the pics that were supplied were so out of focus it was almost hard to tell it was a stockman! But it was a Fight'n Rooster and the price was so low unless it had a broken blade or spring I didn't think I could lose. On the left is the pic from the auction, on the right is my pic. i was pleasantly surprised to find the scale were actually very nice, reminds me of old aggie marbles with the color striations. Every now and then taking a chance and buying blind does pay off...lol.

 

[Peter Parker]

If I want a certain slippy bad enough I will order one with out hesitation. The much better way to go is to purchase the desired knife in person so you can see both sides, and feel the walk and talk! That makes for a much more enjoyable experience, plus you usually can glass shop to see if there's something else you want to try.

 

[kamagong]

I've been relatively lucky with my slipjoint purchases, the majority have had matching scales and little-to-no bladeplay. I don't usually bother to ask seeing both sides, but I guess it really depends on how much I spend on a knife. Under $75 I probably won't bother. $75 and up I'll ask for pics or clarify with the seller that the sides are matching.

 

[knifeswapper]

If you saw a knife on a website and really liked the front; so you emailed and offered the seller $5 extra for the knife if he would get you a good shot of the back; I don't know a one that would turn you down

On the other hand, if a dealer has to take pictures of both sides of every knife he has in the same variant to make a sale; then list each one separately with a unique qualifier; he would need to raise prices to accommodate the overhead or is already setting on a much larger margin than the competition.

Many dealers try to keep all expenses as low as possible so they can pass the savings on to the customer. And most customers don't mind following up a purchase with an email explaining what they just cannot live with or without (sounds like mis-matched slabs for you).

I tried taking "group" pictures at one time to cut down on the overhead and show each example. But ended up wasting more time than I saved by responding to emails asking "For $35 do I get all 10 knives in the picture?"

For my Facebook group I periodically will show all examples of higher end stags when they arrive to allow them to "reserve" one before final purchase. But had to get a programmer to write a claiming queue tool for me as to not get 10 emails within a minute of each other reserving the same knife.

Personally, I feel like it is more fair to not even open the knives until checking it right before shipment. This insures that the last guy buying one has the same chance at getting the cherry as the first guy. Otherwise if you are not the first guy there (and let's just admit it, dealers have their preferred customers that will always get in front of you if they allow cherry-picking) you are guaranteed NOT to get the cherry. If I come across one that I would not be tickled to get myself, I set it aside for flea markets or "ugly stag" descriptors later.

I can see it both ways, but I think you need to take all things into consideration when purchasing. Personally I think you would be better off getting exactly what you want for the best price if you just called or emailed and outlined what you were looking for with the dealer. If they can accommodate you, they will.

Mike Latham
CollectorKnives.Net

 

[CL01]

Interesting question & post. For me, it really depends on the knife, its use, & probably the most important, the price. I'm probably not going to worry so much on a knife of relatively low value (Probably $50-75 or less). However, I'd definitely want to see both sides on a custom &/or high-end production knife. I'd especially want to see both sides on a trade (Again, if it's a high-end or custom).

 

[mdauben]

There are some materials that I flat out refuse to buy sight unseen; stag being right at the top of the list. This material runs the gamut from achingly beautiful to downright ugly, at least as far as I'm concerned, and the scales can be well-matched or look like they came from two very different taxonomic groups. I need to see both sides of a stag handle before I plunk that puppy down into my virtual shopping cart.

Same here, I have purchased two stag handled knives on-line, relying on "stock" photos. One was... disappointing, but the other was was so damn ugly and mis-matched that IMO it never should have left the factory, and I returned it to the seller. Luckily, the seller was a stand-up guy and had several other knives on hand, so he hand-picked a good one for me that I was more than pleased with.

Still, I'll never buy stag again without seeing photos of both sides of the actual knife I'm buying, although I would prefer buying in person even more.

Same goes for many acrylics.

I bought one black "pearl" acrylic handled Trapper from Case. I was a bit disappointed in the knife when I got it, as the "swirlies" were not as pronounced and visible as the stock photo. I was not sure if it was a bad example, or if they just used special lighting for the stock photo. I did not return it, but I probably wound not buy one sight unseen again.

I've seen similar problems with Mother-of-Pearl (usually mis-matched sides but sometimes lack of sufficent "swirlies"), and would not buy one of those without photos of both sides, either.

I'll usually take a chance on jigged or smooth bone, ebony, Micarta and other more or less uniform-looking materials,

I've never really had a problem with bone and routinly buy new ones sight-unseen (used one would be different), and as far as man-made matieral I can't imagine a problem other than an outright defect, which would results in a quick return for exchange of refund.

So I am willing to buy sight unseen and trust the dealer not to send me a real dog.

Yeah, generally for "users" I'm happy to go that route and for standard materials (homogeneous man-made and bone) it has always worked out for me. However, if I am buying an knife with expensive and variable natural matieral handles (like stag, mother-of-pearl, etc.) I'm already paying a premium for appearance, so I expect to get a good looking knife. Unfortunatly, manufacturers seem willing to pass on knives with ugly or mismatched "premium" matierials. IMO, however, ugly or mismatched stag is just as much a defect as a scratched or chipped blade, when you are paying a significant premium for that handle material.

 

[338375]

With Case red bone, particularly the XX and XX USA era, was the dark color on one side done on purpose? Does red bone pretty much stay the same color, or does it darken or lighten as it ages?

I can't give you an honest answer Hal. However, I don't think it was done intentionally. Maybe I haven't seen enough mint specimens of the pre dot era knives to say for sure, but the older ones I have seem to be more consistent in coloring. The ones I've really noticed the color variation on is the dot era knives.
It seems too, that when a knife does have a big difference in the coloring, the darker one always ends up being on the side that doesn't have the shield.

As far as the changing with age, I really haven't noticed much difference.

 

[Rick]

...if a dealer has to take pictures of both sides of every knife he has in the same variant to make a sale; then list each one separately with a unique qualifier; he would need to raise prices to accommodate the overhead or is already se[ll]ing on a much larger margin than the competition.

I don't claim to know anything about the selling margins, but there are several price-competitive on-line dealers who display both sides of many of their individual knives, particularly those with premium scales, just as you do with your "odd lots" in stag (which is why I recently bought one from you). I can see how a stock photo would serve just fine for less expensive offerings and knives with relatively uniform handle materials, but I think premium materials with lots of variation deserve individual obverse and reverse photos, and it appears that I'm not alone in this opinion.

I tried taking "group" pictures at one time to cut down on the overhead and show each example. But ended up wasting more time than I saved by responding to emails asking "For $35 do I get all 10 knives in the picture?"

That's too funny! And not at all surprising, unfortunately.

Yeah, generally for "users" I'm happy to go that route and for standard materials (homogeneous man-made and bone) it has always worked out for me. However, if I am buying an knife with expensive and variable natural matieral handles (like stag, mother-of-pearl, etc.) I'm already paying a premium for appearance, so I expect to get a good looking knife. Unfortunatly, manufacturers seem willing to pass on knives with ugly or mismatched "premium" matierials. IMO, however, ugly or mismatched stag is just as much a defect as a scratched or chipped blade, when you are paying a significant premium for that handle material.

Sounds like we're definitely on the same page here.

Thanks for all the insightful replies. Keep 'em coming.