Byington Blades heat treaters?

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Dec 24, 2018
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43
Has anyone ever used Byington Blades for heat treating? We have always done our own heat treating, but are considering sending it out for some blades. Byington Blades has nice prices and packages, but I haven't really heard much about them. Ive heard of all the usual, Peters, Bos, Tru Grit, but never Byington. If any has used them, how did you like their service? For now its just going to be about 30 blades in A2, simple profiles under 8". Their prices are good, but the part that most interests me is that they claim a 3-7 day turnaround. Ive heard of some of the more well know heat treaters taking many many weeks or months to get blades back. Id love to avoid that if possible, and A2 isn't a complicated steel to heat treat, but it would cost me more than $3 per blade in foil to do it myself. If I can send them out and have them back in 2 weeks, for less than the cost of foil. its a no brainer.
 
I have used Byington. I live near them and can drop off and pickup at Will Call. 5 days turnaround!
Out of 15 AEB-L blades, 3 had slight warp that I straightened with a carbide hammer.
They claim to test for hardness, but I did not see any pits from impact, and I feel my blades may have been harder than I requested (62).
 
I have used Byington. I live near them and can drop off and pickup at Will Call. 5 days turnaround!
Out of 15 AEB-L blades, 3 had slight warp that I straightened with a carbide hammer.
They claim to test for hardness, but I did not see any pits from impact, and I feel my blades may have been harder than I requested (62).
They seem to check for hardness depending what option you choose for ht... The pro option I believe is probably best since we sell blades (they provide a cert). But it says they only hardness test 1 in every 20 blades which seems to be on the lazy side imo.
 
Got these blades back today. They look really good. Everything is dead flat and straight, so on that aspect, they did a great job. What initially made Byington stand out to me over the more well known heat treaters was their price and their short lead time. They start at $3 per blade (30+ blades), and they claim a 3-7 day lead time on most orders. The $3 only includes hardening, and a single temper cycle. By the time you add a second temper cycle and cryo, they are at $5 per blade, which is pretty much the same as everyone else. They quoted me a 3-6 day turnaround when I sent the order, but it turned into 14 business days ( from the time they received them to the time they shipped them back, I'm not counting transit time at all). That's about 3 weeks, which again, is about the same as what the other guys quote. Not a huge deal, and long lead times can be dealt with by planning ahead, but if someone says 3-6 days, and that's what you are expecting, a 14 day turnaround can be problematic.

Their standard process for checking hardness is to test 5% of the order, whereas some of the other heat treaters test every blade. On 34 knives, 5% is only 2 blades. 2 Blades isn't enough to give me confidence that the batch is consistent, and I expressed this to them before ever sending the knives. They agreed to test 10 of the 34, but in the end only 2 were tested. Again, not a huge deal, and still within their normal procedures, but it wasn't what I asked for and what they agreed to. Their basic package doesn't include anything that tells you what their heat treating schedule looked like, so I purchased one of the higher level packages that included "certification of the treatment process and certification of the hardness level", which I did not receive. I was expecting paperwork detailing the parameters of the heat treat schedule, as well as the exact hardness of the tested blades, but got nothing. They don't even have the hardness written on the two blades that they tested. I emailed them after the fact asking for it again, and its possible that they may email it to me, but if the hardness isn't written on the knives they tested, I'm not sure how they would be able to provide it at this point. They wont guarantee an exact hardness, only within a 3 point range. They say they guarantee withing 2 points but if you want 61, they can only guarantee between 60-62, that is definitely a 3 point range. When you request the hardness, you actually request the LOWEST hardness that you want. In my case, we wanted 61, so i requested a minimum of 60, and they would guarantee it to be within 60-62. So at this point, if they provide me a hardness level, who is to say that it was the actual hardness of the knives they checked, and not just some random number within the range. Again, maybe a not a huge deal for some, but it makes it impossible to make adjustments if we decide we want to change the desired hardness on future batches, because we don't really know what the hardness was on these..

Not that anyone asked, but my completely uneducated opinion is that they are probably great for someone who is working on hundreds of blades at a time, and is happy with knowing their hardness somewhere in a general ballpark. But we have always done all of our own heat treating, and in order for me to feel comfortable farming that out, I need to be pretty confident that I am getting what I am expecting. If the turnaround time had been within the window that THEY quoted me, or even just a couple days over that, if they had tested the 10 blades that they agreed to, and if I had received the process certification and the hardness report that was supposed to be included, we would be sending most of our blades to them for heat treatment from now on. I realize now that I am typing that, it may seem a lot to ask or expect, but honestly, its not their name that will be on the knives, its mine, so I do expect a lot. The only reason we ever considered sending out for heat treatment was because we found their website and their description of their services worked well for what we need/expect. We'll probably send batches out to the more well known guys like Peters and Bos to see how it goes. But 30-40 blades at a time isn't really enough to move the needle for any heat treater, so I'm half expecting similar results.
 
Got these blades back today. They look really good. Everything is dead flat and straight, so on that aspect, they did a great job. What initially made Byington stand out to me over the more well known heat treaters was their price and their short lead time. They start at $3 per blade (30+ blades), and they claim a 3-7 day lead time on most orders. The $3 only includes hardening, and a single temper cycle. By the time you add a second temper cycle and cryo, they are at $5 per blade, which is pretty much the same as everyone else. They quoted me a 3-6 day turnaround when I sent the order, but it turned into 14 business days ( from the time they received them to the time they shipped them back, I'm not counting transit time at all). That's about 3 weeks, which again, is about the same as what the other guys quote. Not a huge deal, and long lead times can be dealt with by planning ahead, but if someone says 3-6 days, and that's what you are expecting, a 14 day turnaround can be problematic.

Their standard process for checking hardness is to test 5% of the order, whereas some of the other heat treaters test every blade. On 34 knives, 5% is only 2 blades. 2 Blades isn't enough to give me confidence that the batch is consistent, and I expressed this to them before ever sending the knives. They agreed to test 10 of the 34, but in the end only 2 were tested. Again, not a huge deal, and still within their normal procedures, but it wasn't what I asked for and what they agreed to. Their basic package doesn't include anything that tells you what their heat treating schedule looked like, so I purchased one of the higher level packages that included "certification of the treatment process and certification of the hardness level", which I did not receive. I was expecting paperwork detailing the parameters of the heat treat schedule, as well as the exact hardness of the tested blades, but got nothing. They don't even have the hardness written on the two blades that they tested. I emailed them after the fact asking for it again, and its possible that they may email it to me, but if the hardness isn't written on the knives they tested, I'm not sure how they would be able to provide it at this point. They wont guarantee an exact hardness, only within a 3 point range. They say they guarantee withing 2 points but if you want 61, they can only guarantee between 60-62, that is definitely a 3 point range. When you request the hardness, you actually request the LOWEST hardness that you want. In my case, we wanted 61, so i requested a minimum of 60, and they would guarantee it to be within 60-62. So at this point, if they provide me a hardness level, who is to say that it was the actual hardness of the knives they checked, and not just some random number within the range. Again, maybe a not a huge deal for some, but it makes it impossible to make adjustments if we decide we want to change the desired hardness on future batches, because we don't really know what the hardness was on these..

Not that anyone asked, but my completely uneducated opinion is that they are probably great for someone who is working on hundreds of blades at a time, and is happy with knowing their hardness somewhere in a general ballpark. But we have always done all of our own heat treating, and in order for me to feel comfortable farming that out, I need to be pretty confident that I am getting what I am expecting. If the turnaround time had been within the window that THEY quoted me, or even just a couple days over that, if they had tested the 10 blades that they agreed to, and if I had received the process certification and the hardness report that was supposed to be included, we would be sending most of our blades to them for heat treatment from now on. I realize now that I am typing that, it may seem a lot to ask or expect, but honestly, its not their name that will be on the knives, its mine, so I do expect a lot. The only reason we ever considered sending out for heat treatment was because we found their website and their description of their services worked well for what we need/expect. We'll probably send batches out to the more well known guys like Peters and Bos to see how it goes. But 30-40 blades at a time isn't really enough to move the needle for any heat treater, so I'm half expecting similar results.
I currently use both Peter's and Bos.

I use Peter's for folder blades and Bos for fixed generally. The reason being is that sometimes peter's uses a torch to straighten whereas Bos does not (straightening isn't really needed on my folder blades though since they are so short).

Peter's by far is the most professional HT outfit I've encountered... they provide you with a heat treat certificate on all blades and check multiple blades in each batch. Also billing is timely as is their quoted turn around generally.

Bos I've had some issues with but nothing major. They don't provide you with anything written down as far as the final hardness value on your blades and the last time I used them it took MONTHS to get billed and my card charged (and that was after me calling repeatedly over multiple weeks).
 
Just received an email from Byington Blades. He acknowledged that it was a mistake to only hardness test the 2, it should have been 10 as agreed. He also said that the two they did test were 63HRC as quenched, and 64 and 64.5 HRC after temper. I'm assuming that he has those reversed, but that's what he said. So far, the entire experience is NOT instilling much confidence. Heat treat is the heart of the knife, if I cant be confident in the heat treat, there is no point in trying to sell the knife. Peters is actually significantly cheaper, at $3.50 per blade. But they require a minimum of 100 blades to get that price.
 
I currently use both Peter's and Bos.

I use Peter's for folder blades and Bos for fixed generally. The reason being is that sometimes peter's uses a torch to straighten whereas Bos does not (straightening isn't really needed on my folder blades though since they are so short).

Peter's by far is the most professional HT outfit I've encountered... they provide you with a heat treat certificate on all blades and check multiple blades in each batch. Also billing is timely as is their quoted turn around generally.

Bos I've had some issues with but nothing major. They don't provide you with anything written down as far as the final hardness value on your blades and the last time I used them it took MONTHS to get billed and my card charged (and that was after me calling repeatedly over multiple weeks).
A2 isn't usually prone to a lot of warping, especially since most of our knives are 8" or less and we do all grinding post heat treat, so straightening might not be a huge issue. What are the downsides to the torch straightening? This batch of blades came out dead flat, and I cant see any evidence of straightening, unless they used a jig during temper. But that doesn't seem likely for an industrial heat treater. What has been Peters usual turnaround time in your experience?
 
A2 isn't usually prone to a lot of warping, especially since most of our knives are 8" or less and we do all grinding post heat treat, so straightening might not be a huge issue. What are the downsides to the torch straightening? This batch of blades came out dead flat, and I cant see any evidence of straightening, unless they used a jig during temper. But that doesn't seem likely for an industrial heat treater. What has been Peters usual turnaround time in your experience?
Yeah it may not be much of an issue for you... you can actually request that they skip it too and handle it on your own if there does happen to be any warp. The downside would be that the heat lowers the hardness near the edge.

They are normally 2-3 weeks on average for me. I just keep that in mind when figuring out projects.
 
Just received an email from Byington Blades. He acknowledged that it was a mistake to only hardness test the 2, it should have been 10 as agreed. He also said that the two they did test were 63HRC as quenched, and 64 and 64.5 HRC after temper. I'm assuming that he has those reversed, but that's what he said. So far, the entire experience is NOT instilling much confidence. Heat treat is the heart of the knife, if I cant be confident in the heat treat, there is no point in trying to sell the knife. Peters is actually significantly cheaper, at $3.50 per blade. But they require a minimum of 100 blades to get that price.
If I asked for 61 Rc and heat treater was telling me they tested 64-65 I would be scratching my head and wondering.

You probably should pay more and use Peter's. For 32 blades prices are reasonable.
 
If I asked for 61 Rc and heat treater was telling me they tested 64-65 I would be scratching my head and wondering.

You probably should pay more and use Peter's. For 32 blades prices are reasonable.
Peters will actually be cheaper. They are $3.50 per blade compared to the $5 per blade that I paid. I opted not to use peters because it was a higher minimum to get the best pricing, and 3 weeks vs 3-6 days turnaround, but it ended up being close to 3 weeks anyway. Peters is definitely who we will be using next. I'll just spend a few extra days getting the 100 blades ready, but it sounds like the added piece of mind will definitely be worth it.
 
I have used Byington twice now and overall satisfied. 2 weeks or less door to door turnaround time. Received paperwork for hardness testing and process used. It was taped up on outside of box with shipping label. I could visually see which ones were tested. I do wish the hardness was written on the blade and I could get all of them tested however. I used Bos once in the past and it took almost 3 months for 15 blades. Did a fine job but took forever. Jarod Todd was my go to prior to his changes and he set the bar high for others. All my blades have been AEB-L and perfectly flat for the record as well.
 
A lot of places shut down for the July 4th week, too, which can delay things a lot! I got charged on June 18th by Bos, but still haven't gotten my blades back. Last summer, they were there for a week, but it wasn't around the Holiday week either. Hoping they ship back soon!
 
Knives shipped back from Bos and are scheduled for delivery today; they went out on Wednesday, so 3 weeks from billed to being shipped back, including during the July 4th Holiday, so that's not too bad!
 
Peters will actually be cheaper. They are $3.50 per blade compared to the $5 per blade that I paid. I opted not to use peters because it was a higher minimum to get the best pricing, and 3 weeks vs 3-6 days turnaround, but it ended up being close to 3 weeks anyway. Peters is definitely who we will be using next. I'll just spend a few extra days getting the 100 blades ready, but it sounds like the added piece of mind will definitely be worth it.
Its a job getting 100 plus ready I get it:

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Bout half profiled:

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Finish up profiling and then a bunch of drilling to do. These are all AEB-L and bevels will be ground post heat treat.
 
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