CA knife laws

K

knifesite

Joined
Nov 5, 2000
Messages
50
Hello All,

I have a customer looking for the info on the max. blade length in CA.

They are interested in a Spyderco Military.

$15.00 Online Gift Certificate to the first correct answer.

www.knifesite.com

Please respond to steve@knifesite.com

Steve Wilton
 
Knifesite:
Folding knife, no limit. Fixed blade, 4" concealed and any length not concealed. No double edge knives, no butterfly knives. No spring assisted autos with blade length greater than 2". Each town has its own laws and they are to say the least vague. Much discretion is given to Law Enforcement Officers. Plane carry: FAA folder blade limit 4", no serrations. Best airplane folder keep blade close to 3", no serrations, no hassels. Be cool, don't try to hide things and be respectful to any LEO and you shouldn't have any problems.
 
Bladelaw:
Actually I'm not much into fixed blades so I'm not sure about the 4" concealed. I know that carry on a belt is not considered concealed but if you have a jacket on it might. But like I said, a lot of leeway is given to the LEO. I've been caught with a car full of guns. I was very respectful to the officer and didn't cop an attitude. My record is spotless and the reason the guns were in my car was because my wife's sisters kids were staying at my house and I locked them in my trunk and took the car to work. I took my car to have the breaks checked and got a ride back to my job. The mechanic found the guns and called the police. I got off with a stern warning. Point is that if you are polite and not looking for trouble, cops give you the benefit of the doubt. That atitude has served me well.
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Scott Dog: Your observations about a polite attitude are right on. Actually, any length knife, if concealed and if a " dirk or dagger " is illegal, one handed opening folders and non-locking folders are exempted. Putting a jacket over a knife suspended in a sheath does conceal it.
 
Bladelaw,
You state,"Putting a jacket over a knife suspended in a sheath does conceal it". Do you have the case law or Penal Code section that supports that? I've never heard that before, but then again I only know just enough law to get myself in trouble
smile.gif
.

Thanks in advance
Mark

[This message has been edited by Griff (edited 03-18-2001).]
 
Griff: Penal code section 12020 says the sheath must be worn openly and suspended from the belt.
 
I find the legality of carrying a knife in California confusing when you add the local laws on top of the state law. I wish someone could provide some kind of summary of what is legal or illegal on knife carry in California. Some of us could be breaking the law without knowing it such as carrying a knife on a school/college ground. I hope that are some forum members that are practicing lawyers in California when one of us needs help.

The excerpts below are from Levine's site:
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ca.txt

"Here revised versions of the California statutes,
furnished to me 12/6/2000 by Jason Davidoff.

The CA state Penal Code can be found online at:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Here are the relevant sections cut and pasted
by Mr. Davidoff from the site linked above:

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any
of the following is punishable by imprisonment in
a county jail not exceeding one year or in the
state prison:
(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any
dirk or dagger. C(24) As used in this section, a
"dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other
instrument with or without a handguard that is
capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that
may inflict great bodily injury or death.
A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that
is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a
pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing
weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or
death only if the blade of the knife is exposed
and locked into position.

653k. Every person who possesses in the
passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle
in any public place or place open to the public,
carries upon his or her person, and every person
who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale,
loans, transfers, or gives to any other person
a switchblade knife having a blade two or more
inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade
knife" means a knife having the appearance of a
pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife,
snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which
are two or more inches long and which can be
released automatically by a flick of a button,
pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or
other mechanical device, or is released by the
weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism
whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include
a knife that is designed to open with one hand
utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the
blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or
driver's area" means that part of a motor vehicle
which is designed to carry the driver and
passengers, including any interior compartment
or space therein.

California case law:
Butterfly knife which has blade in excess of two inches is
"switch-blade knife" within meaning of... 653k. [Attorney
General's opinion 11-19-1985.]

[626.10 (a) not printed here, covers K-12 schools,
and prohibits fixed blades and folders over ??2.5"]

626.10. Any person, except [listed officials] who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, knife having a blade longer than 3-1/2 inches, folding knife with a blade that locks into place, a razor with an unguarded blade... upon the grounds of, or within any public school... is guilty of a misdemeanor.


626.10 (b) Any person, except a duly appointed
peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing
with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time
paid peace officer of another state or the federal
government who is carrying out official duties while
in this state, a person summoned by any officer
to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace
while the person is actually engaged in assisting any
officer, or a member of the military forces of this
state or the United States who is engaged in the
performance of his or her duties, who brings or
possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick, or knife having
a fixed blade longer than 2 1/2 inches upon the
grounds of, or within, any private university, the
University of California, the California State
University, or the California Community Colleges is
guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.

Here are the 1996 statutes:
California - Penal Code Section 653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade over two inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section a "switchblade knife" is a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife, and shall include a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches long and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any other type of mechanism whatsoever...

- 626.10. Any person, except [listed officials] who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, knife having a blade longer than 3-1/2 inches, folding knife with a blade that locks into place, a razor with an unguarded blade... upon the grounds of, or within any public school... is guilty of a misdemeanor.

- 12020. (a) Any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any... ballistic knife, any belt buckle knife..., any shuriken..., any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobe-zui, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife... or who carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger, is guilty of a felony...
[All of the banned items are described in the statute in excruciating detail, but "dirk or dagger" were not defined at all until 1996, when the state legislature added the following definition of "dirk or dagger."]
- PC 12020(c)(24) "a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is primarily designed, constructed, or altered to be a stabbing instrument designed to inflict great bodily injury or death."]
[The original statute includes the following exemption.]
(23)(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

- 12028. (a) The unlawful concealed carrying... of any...dirk or dagger... is a nuisance... (c) Any weapon described in subdivision (a)... shall be surrendered to the sheriff... or the chief of police... for sale at public auction [unless it was stolen].

California case law:
Butterfly knife which has blade in excess of two inches is "switch-blade knife" within meaning of... 653k. [Attorney General's opinion 11-19-1985.]

http://www.knife-expert.com

------------------
Ed Woo
 
FYI: there is no blade length limit on fixed blades in Cali. (except for schools/colleges...i.e. the P.C. 626.10 sections)

--dan

------------------
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"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
THEODORE ROOSEVELT
(Paris Sorbonne,1910)

Co-Moderator of the General Flashlight, Lantern, & Headlamp Discussion Board at www.candlepowerforums.com

Bladeforums oldtimer...Oct./'98...

1*
 
Ooops...I missed him saying 4" FBs can be concealed. They can't. That's more of a New York thing. He mentioned the Military, so I focused on folders and in that area, he was correct.

See also the more detailed links from the page I published above.

Jim
 
Yup..and another quick thingy is that a lot of cities have their own local laws, which can be somewhat problematic, because finding the texts on these is difficult...

--dan
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BLADELAW:
Griff: Penal code section 12020 says the sheath must be worn openly and suspended from the belt.</font>
Click to expand...

Bladelaw,
What the penal code states is fairly obvious. But how does that support your assertion that a blade on the belt, when covered by a jacket, is not concealed? It seems that an over zealous LEO could and would try to say that you were intentionally trying to conceal a weapon, when you were only cold and buttoned up your coat. If you have info about this situation (specifically case law, I don't ever take the word of a Policeman to mean anything other than the way that particular cop might interpret that particular PC section on that day),please I'd like to know of it. I have worn a fixed blade in this manner, and will probablly continue to do so, but it would nice to know that I'm not breaking the law to do it.

Mark


 
Griff,

You probably are illegal if you cover a fixed blade knife with a coat. The word that the section uses is "openly" carried. 12020 does not say that the knife must be suspended from the waist, only that openly suspended from the waist is not concealed according to the intent of the section. I think that was put in their to keep DAs from going completely over the edge and claiming that a knife in a sheath was concealed, even though the sheath was in plain sight. But that is Mr. Synical talking.

The problem with 12020 is that it is so generally worded that you can virtually get busted six ways from Sunday if you don't pass the LEO's attitude test (or socio-economic test). A cop can arrest you for anything he thinks you should be arrested for, even if it doesn't stick in court later.

Some states have the test that enough of the knife has to be visible that an ordinary person would recognize it for what it is. I have not heard of that particular test being applied in CA though.

Your attitude and what you are doing probably has a lot to do with how open your carry has to be.

[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 03-19-2001).]
 
Bladelaw,
I’d like to apologize for being a complete idiot.
For some reason, even though I read through your post multiple times, I kept reading the word “does” as “doesn’t” (perhaps wishful thinking). Thank you for pointing that out to me in a civil manner, even as I was a little condescending.

Whoops,
Mark
 
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