CA Legal Question (653K)

medusaoblongata

medusaoblongata

Joined
May 1, 2000
Messages
2,259
California State Penal Code 653k says, in part:

"For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches long and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of
mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that is designed to open with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade."

The "flip of the wrist" or "weight of the blade" is the part of this I am unclear on. Does this mean that a folding knife that can be "snapped" open is considered a switchblade? Because I can open most any folder with a flip of my wrist, even my Buck 112. Or is the law referring specifically to knives which were designed to open with a flip of the wrist. Should I go home and tighten the tension adjustments on all of my knives so they cannot be flipped open, or does it not matter how loose they are so long as they were "designed to open with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade?"

Any insight would be appreciated.

Jason

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"I have often laughed at the weaklings who call themselves kind because they have no claws"

- Zarathustra
 
This is a pretty gray area and it has been made even more uncertain with the latest change that exempts one hand openers.

Theoretically, if the knife has been designed to be opened with thumb pressure on a stud or a disk or a hole, it should be alright. The reality, however, is that if it can be opened with a "flick of the wrist", regardless of the design, you could be in trouble in the wrong circumstances.

People have been arrested, jailed and charged under 653K for possession of knives like the BM800 (AFCK) and other similar knives that were loosened, either intentionally or unintentionally, and could be opened that way.

There was some discussion awhile back as to whether the new Axis Locks from BM were actually gravity knives. Once they are broken in, the blade will fall open from it's own weight when the lock is pulled back. Haven't heard of anyone getting busted for one yet, though. OTOH the Kershaw Ken Onion designs seem to be just fine. I haven't heard of anyone getting busted for one of those, yet.

One would like to think common sense would prevail but I have personally seen cases wher a police officer, after many tries and mighty effort was able to "flick open" a new Buck 110.

He then declared it a "switchblade" and confiscated it. He let the dealer off with a warning though, nice guy that he was. Oh yeah, he also let the dealer keep all of the other 110s that he had in stock. I guess he already had something for his other pocket.

If you don't fit some kind of "profile" that catches the attention of the local police and if you aren't brazenly flaunting the knives under their noses, you should be ok.

Just remember, the first case where someone was busted, jailed, charged and convicted of violating the dirk and dagger law with a folding knife involved a Spyderco Mariner.

For those of you who don't know, in Kalifornia, a dirk or dagger is any instrument, with or without a hilt that can be readily used as a stabbing weapon that can cause great bodily harm or death.

The trial judge in that case declared that the Mariner was a stabbing weapon, under the law, and the fellow went to jail. An appeals court later threw out the conviction but the guy still spent some time in jail.

The point of all this is that it doesn't matter what we think the law says. The person behind the badge makes the decision to get the ball rolling and then it's anybodies game.

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Dennis Wright
("Have a knife day!")

(NSTBFCM)
 
CJ Buck reports, in a thread that's a few weeks old now over in the AKTI Forum, that some CA district attorney types were grumbling that cheap spydie-clones, found on the "usual suspects," that could be flipped open with some effort, were getting ruled lawful by the courts because, though they could be flipped open, they were also thumb-openers, and so were exempt from 653K.

I think a DA auto with a thumb stud should also be exempt for the same reason, but I'm not sure I want to pay the legal fees to find out, even if I win.

Did I ever mention that the law is a "humble beast of burden"?
smile.gif




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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
My take is this:

In the Spyderco Mariner case, one issue in court was that the blade could be grabbed and the grip swung down, forming a "gravity knife" type of opening sequence.

The legislature felt that was dumb as hell, and reformed 653k effective 1/1/97 in direct response.

So the common interpretation now is that a non-spring-loaded manual opener with an obvious manual opening system cannot be declared a "switchblade". Remember, the ONLY illegal folder under 653k is a "switchblade", and then the definition of "switchblade" is widened out into BaliSongs, gravity knives, etc.

So when the law says ""Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that is designed to open with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade", that means such manual-openers are LEGAL, flat out, end of statement.

Now, as James says, the real tricky variant is the DA auto. Heck with it - the Sifu is so good I don't see any need for an actual spring, personally.

Jim
 
It's interesting that many laws seem almost purposely vague. Is it the intention to allow use of these laws in cases where a known/proven criminal might otherwise go free? Or is the intention to criminalize a law abiding person?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Brandon

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I've got the schizophrenic blues
No I don't
Yes I do...
 
In the vein of "absolute power corrupts absolutely", it is the nature of authoritarian (not to say, fascist) organizations such as law enforcement to request laws that are versatile, i.e. vague. This allows them to arrest and sometimes prosecute people they don't like, but cannot prove to be guilty of actually hurting anyone. 99% of the time they employ the versatility of unconstitutionally vague laws in a way that would be deemed acceptable by most of society.

So, Brandon, I would say yes to your first question, and no to your second. Unfortunately, vague laws allow law enforcement personnel to answer yes to the second question any time they choose, which is extremely unconstitutional.

One of the primary themes of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is that, as long as private individuals are not hurting anyone else, the government shall leave us the hell alone, and no laws shall be passed to the contrary. Unfortunately, a fair number of our law makers are more interested in their political careers than in true patriotism.
 
Sounds like it comes down to the cop's attitude (and his reaction to mine), at least until it gets to court. I think the vagueness of certain laws helps flexibility; this just becomes problematic when those in control of that flexibility don't necessarily have the best interests of the general population in mind. As far as the DA auto goes, I think if someone got off in court with one, they would decide that this meant the law wasn't strict enough and would make it more specific (and probably not in a good way). Same might go for the Kershaw. I heard recently that the Camillus Lev-R-Lock was ruled illegal in CA because the opening mechanism is built into the handle and not on the blade, haven't been able to confirm this yet... Makes the CUDA questionable, which bugs me because I like both of those knives. Anyway, let's all try to keep each other informed, so at least we will know whether we're breaking the law or not.

Jason

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"I have often laughed at the weaklings who call themselves kind because they have no claws"

- Zarathustra
 
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